What American cities are worth visiting in 2023 (and maybe 2024) in terms of sightseeing, cultural venues, dining, and general fun stuff? Is New York City still fun, or has that been overpoliticized and all of the normal people left after 2020? Have American cities seen "normal flight" since 2020 or are there still otherwise sane people in these places?
Is America still hypocritically requiring foreign visitors to show proof of vaccination while said requirement has been dropped elsewhere in the West (and even East Asia), including for American travelers?
I was thinking of these cities in mind, based on cursory readings of their histories and cultural staples, in order listed:
Tier 1 (from an international perspective):
New York City
Los Angeles
San Francisco
Washington DC
Tier 2:
Chicago
Las Vegas
Miami
Orlando
Tier 3:
Boston
Philadelphia
Seattle
Bonus tier (largely considered irrelevant internationally, in no particular order):
Detroit (car factories, museums, 'ruins', etc.)
Atlanta
Pittsburgh
St. Louis
Cleveland
Portland
New Orleans
Memphis (Elvis Presley stuff, apparently)
Texas cities
Anything else?
Would you recommend solo travel, going along with someone, or just forget American cities altogether? Any good industrial tours, like Boeing factories, General Motors plants, etc. or is it not worth it?
And lastly, do any of these cities feel at all like the movies portray them? Do NYC, LA, and Chicago in particular have the charm of their late 20th century TV and movie depictions, or is that all gone (and maybe never existed in the first place)?
I live in Orlando and would strongly argue the city shouldn't even be ranked. Taking away theme parks (which half aren't even in Orlando btw) you're left with nothing of substance here. The city has no identity, history, culture, whatever. I would really like to know what got you to rank it above cities with actual significance like Boston and Philly.
Orlando is in travel brochures and ads, moreso than Boston or Philadelphia. And yes, they sell it as a them park city, similar to Las Vegas. I thought it is a major tourist destination even within the United States.
My bad, I'm biased since I actually live here. I would say for someone just passing through on travel, yes, it's very much a good tourist destination.
>Have to be vaxxed to visit
Pass
False.
You just need to show papers stating that you were injected at least two weeks ago.
Yeah, and what if is proven that such papers are forgeries?
Philadelphia is one of the few well built cities in America
From a European perspective everything I’ve seen in America was well built
Well built, but not well populated unfortunately.
Agreed
It definitely is, New York money is seeping in.
My personal theory on Philly is that it’s going to blow up and get gentrified/moneyed the same way Denver/Portland/Austin did in the last 20 years. Looking at buying some real estate there at the moment.
What about Pittsburgh, hasn't that gotten a lot of attention recently, or did COVID kill the steam?
Pittsburgh doesn’t have as much going for it. It’s not as close to the coast, not as close to DC or NYC to make hopper day trips feasible for white collars working partially remote. Doesn’t have as much history. Pittsburgh is still a steel town. Just my 2c.
Ah. Thought tech companies were relocating some of their operations there.
May not be clear to a euro, but the rust belt here is pretty fricked up. Like dying a slow undeath since the 50s in subtle ways
>Good place to watch hockey too
The joe was way better though
Also, thing to note In general. Human civilizations have always centered around rivers, Philly has a big river running through it. Pittsburgh doesn’t.
Ever heard of three rivers stadium moron?
I love Pittsburgh's layout but yeah like
said.
Philadelphia “blew up” in the 18th century. Pennsylvania was America’s California and Texas before America even had California and Texas and Philadelphia was the largest city on the continent and one of the largest in the world. So you missed the boat on this one by about 200 years. Given the current leadership and demographics there’s zero chance it makes a come back.
Philadelphia's downtown will turn into an extension of Manhattan. Unironically buy real estate in center city and you'll make it
the housing prices don't indicate that at all
From an international perspective really only New York and San Francisco. Los Angeles can have things to do but is big, complicated, and you will likely mess it up. Drop Wash DC, the museums are ok, everything else is bad. Even for a history buff, DC is very retrofitted as a historical visit, but actually isn't an interesting one. Though seeing the memorials and all can really only be done in DC. The reasonable substitute is Boston, for interesting attractions, history, and staples. So I'd move that to tier one, maybe with Chicago too. Cities "like" Chicago (of listed St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Cleveland), give the most American experience. What I mean to say by that is that's where the true character, and feeling of whatever America is supposed to be come from. Normal even.
i revisited san francisco a month ago. previously i lived there for five years. the city still has beautiful views. it was built on a bunch of hills that are on a peninsula. there's a lot of natural beauty combined with interesting architecture. it also has great food, a variety of cultures and neighborhoods, walking/public transit, and access to other parts of the bay area. the downsides are crime that targets naive tourists and if youre driving around the city, it can be tough. also drug usage is rampant amongst the homeless, so many are mentally not there.
ive seen some of the nicest people in san francisco, and also some of the weirdest, most disgusting people ever. ive never been mugged or assaulted. i think it's like any other big city in america. be aware of your surroundings, avoid sketchy areas, and youll be fine.
>Is America still hypocritically requiring foreign visitors to show proof of vaccination
in california, no one checks for vaccination anymore. except maybe hospitals, but i havent been to one in a while.
>crime that targets naive tourists
In what way? Simply trying to catch them unaware and steal, or trying to scam them like Egyptians do?
trying to catch them unaware and robbing them. dont walk around staring at your phone. that's the type of person who gets targeted.
thieves also target cars with stuff inside. many tourists leave luggage in plain sight inside cars. the least people should do is put all luggage and property in the trunk, out of sight. i have not been to egypt, so i dunno what that is like.
New York and Los angeles are GARBAGE
Unironically go to Chicago, Philly or D.C and then there's the nature in california and north wisconsin/minnesota
Absolutely agree. This has always been my very argument and I'm convincing my G*rman friend to skip LA completely. New York still is a good destination though
If someone was visiting the US for the first time, I would never recommend the east coast as a first choice. NYC is beautiful for about 48 hours. Once you start interacting with the miserable fricks who live there, you'll get sick if it really fast.
The best stuff to see in the US are the National Parks out west: The Grand Canyon, Zion, Bryce, Arches, Yosemite, Yellowstone, The Tetons and Sequoia. A road trip in September would be ideal. Here's the best 2 week trip you'll ever take.
The map doesn't show it because it's closed until summer, but you would drive out the back way of Yosemite on Tioga Rd. You'd cruise down 395 past the tallest mountain in the continental US.Then you'd cut across Death Valley National Park to vegas.
This is a very good trip but I'd add SF and bay area to your itinerary if you can. Ignore the idiots about SF being a shithole. Yes they have been way to kind to the homeless for decades and are living with consequences but it's a very unique city. If you want a typical California Beach experience head to laguna beach, newport beach, La Jolla, etc.
>NYC
>Miami
>Boston
>Philly
>LA
>San Fran
Orlando is souless as frick. I guess Vegas is good to go to see what it's like but if your not moronic you will hate it. DC kind of sucks imo, Philadelphia and Boston have better history stuff and more museums and are just better cities overall. The DC museums suck and unless your really into globohomosexual there is not much to see in DC. Philly definitely is a bit of a shit hole and you might see some heroin addicted homeless zombies wandering around but I think it has some soul and it does have some nice neighborhoods. The same can be said for San Francisco.
Remember the best parts of the USA are way outside the cities, in the small towns, the national forests, parks ect
the homeless epidemic and woke culture has ruined any chance america ever had of being a worthy travel destination. pick any point in america, and there are better AND cheaper options outside of the country.
hawaii is the only state truly worth visiting.
What is the homeless situation like in europe?
Hawaii is stupidly expensive though
Chicago is mildly underrated so long as you visit in a good window when the jiggers aren't rioting and murdering random whites in the street
Chicago is probably the only destination on the list that will match his perception of it too. New York is too plastic and new to call back any sort of history
>What is the homeless situation like in europe?
There are no places in Europe where you would be concerned about used suringes littering the streets. Not even in the UK, which has a reputation for drug use. The most likely places to meet homeless are train stations, which is why I prefer to fly.
>Is America still hypocritically requiring foreign visitors to show proof of vaccination while said requirement has been dropped elsewhere in the West (and even East Asia), including for American travelers?
As if another country's entry requirements somehow dictate what our requirements should be. How hypocritical of us to make our own laws.
Look eurogay, if you want to see your idealized version of America, just do NYC and DC. You won't like it anywhere else. To you it will be just a shitty version of whatever stereotype you have of America. You want to see this country from an "international perspective" - whatever the frick that means - then stay in big cities. Your "tiers" are meaningless, all cities besides NYC and DC are unremarkable, soulless places compared to Europe. Why bother with food and culture in America, it is obviously inferior. Just pick up your Levi's and go home.
You might want to understand that neither NYC, DC, nor any other major city represents America. Those places are the worst of the country, being cesspools of 3rd world filth leeching off taxpayers while Democrats buy their votes through welfare. These cities have several things in common: rampant crime and homelessness, legal drugs, high taxes, an exodus of middle class, and a Democrat run government. Why would you want to go there?
If you want to see America and expect European things like art, architecture, beautiful cities with canals, fountains with statues of babies peeing, and all that other man made garbage, then you will be severely disappointed. Our culture lies in the pioneering and entrepreneurial spirit, and our vast open spaces that the euro brain cannot comprehend. The beauty of America is found in our wilderness, not in man made things. Much of this grandeur is seasonal; new England is best in the fall, the Rockies in the winter. Interacting with the outdoors is our "culture".
Speaking as a European, San Francisco is a shithole. I you must see that stupid fricking bridge, visit for two days max and stay in the touristy areas. The rest of the city is a landfill.
Europeans have a bad time in SF because they don't rent cars and they try to take public transportation everywhere. You really have to drive to do the SF area the right way. Get out of the city and do Muir Woods. The hikes in Marin county on the coastline are fricking epic. Muir Beach to the Pirate Cove is one of my all time favorite hikes. There are amazing state parks all up and down the coast that you can't see if you stay in city and don't have a car. If you're in SF, you have to drive down and do Carmel. But the best thing to do with a car is drive 3 hours to South Lake Tahoe in the summer and see the lake and the waterfalls. My favorite bike path in the US
Another reason I think Euros have a bad time in SF is that it isn't cheap. You have to have money to spend to do a lot of the good restaurants and bars. And staying in a hostel is out of the question. You have to stay in a hotel or Airbnb.
First, I agree with you, the areas outside of SF are nice. I went biking there and enjoyed my time outside the city. California can be beautiful. But this thread is about the cities themselves and the city of SF fricking sucks. I'm sure it's fine living in a rich neighborhood away from the centre, but as a tourist, there is nothing to do there.
As for where to stay, I went there a few times for business and stayed in nice hotels in the Financial district and went to moderately expensive restaurants. That's not the problem. Of course those are fine. And most restaurants/venues/attractions in the city are fine. It's everything inbetween that's terrible. All the fricking homeless, drug addicts, dirty streets. That's really what puts most Europeans off, the poverty of it all. Which is extra glaring in such a rich city. It's inconceivable to me that on the same street that houses billion dollar companies likeTwitter and Uber, there's fricking hordes of drug addled homeless people taking up the sidewalk and harassing people.
And just for comparison's sake, I've been to other big US cities like NYC and Seattle, and they're not nearly as bad. LA kind of is as well. It seems to be a Cali thing.
>It's inconceivable to me that on the same street that houses billion dollar companies likeTwitter and Uber, there's fricking hordes of drug addled homeless people taking up the sidewalk and harassing people.
That's because billion dollar companies prefer that those drug addled homeless harass people than put them in a psych ward or jail. Same deal with crime: the idea of just locking them up is icky, so these billion-dollar companies actively lobby against throwing them in jail like the 90s, or sending out death squads to make sure they die in a gunfight with the police like LAPD did in the late 80s.
>That's because billion dollar companies prefer that those drug addled homeless harass people than put them in a psych ward or jail.
Why?
Bleeding heart liberals don’t want to admit that some people are fundamentally broken. We don’t have a homeless issue, we have a mental health/drug issue. The liberal narrative is that these people are just down on their luck hard working folks who caught a bad break. Some of them might be but those people don’t stay homeless for long.
>Same deal with crime: the idea of just locking them up is icky
oh for god's sake get it together you fricking cucks
Miami isn’t worth visiting. SF is a homeless paradise. Philly is a dirty shit hole. Chicago is grate but if you’re going to NY it’s just going to be a worse version of that.
Oh wow what a list lol
Tier 1 (from an international perspective):
New York City - people shit on nyc all the time here, but I think it's worthwhile to visit.
Los Angeles - LA is really endless sprawl and traffic, and not much unique considering the population size. Replace this with San Diego
San Francisco - yes homelessness is a problem, if you do your due diligence it's still a great city to visit.
Washington DC - museums are good, some neighborhoods but def not a must see
Tier 2:
Chicago - every city in the Midwest is modeled after Chicago, both in terms of architecture & urban planning.
Las Vegas - unique spectacle, good for 48-72 hours max
Miami - sucks unless you're rich, go to St Pete's (neat Tampa) instead. Both download & the beach are superior to Miami
Orlando - this city is lame & soulless, but if you want theme parks & manufactured thrills, you found it.
Tier 3:
Boston / Philadelphia - visit one or the other, similar experience
Seattle - Seattle is like SF but 100x worse. Only saving grace is access to nature.
Bonus tier
Detroit / Pittsburgh / Cleveland / St Louis are all about the same diff. Better than you'd expected but partially bc the expectations are so low.
Atlanta - messy hot hellhole with some of the worst traffic ever, and honestly not a ton to do for a city it's size.
Portland - literally overrun by homeless, East Portland is still fun, but no reason to go here anymore, another worse version of SF. Has access to nature too
New Orleans - this should be higher, amazing food & music, unique city
Memphis (Elvis Presley stuff, apparently) - skip it , go to Nashville instead.
Texas cities - skip Dallas / Houston, do San Antonio & Austin
I'd add Charleston SC/ Savannah GA for uniquely American cities.
>Los Angeles - LA is really endless sprawl and traffic, and not much unique considering the population size. Replace this with San Diego
This alone means you should take this (guys) advice
Denver is underrated from an international perspective.
>Colfax Ave is the longest street in the US and used to be part of Route 40, the lesser know cousin of Route 66. Because of that there are still all the 50’s era dive bars, seedy hotels, and restaurants. Very OG Americana. Check out Bastiens for a good steak.
>It’s also a cowboy city, you can catch a a rodeo if you go the right time of year. Pretty cool spectacle as a foreigner if you’ve never been to one.
>Red Rocks Amphitheater is a bucket list venue. Doesn’t even matter who’s playing.
>If you’re a geology/Archaeology nerd there are open formations on the side of the highways you can go find fossils.
>Take a day trip up to Estes Park and go have a drink at the Stanley Hotel
>Casa Bonita is a shit hole but it’s kinda a cool shit hole
>Shotgun Willies, a strip club that’s practically an institution of the city
>Don’t hang out on 16st mall. Go down Broadway or in Capitol Hill. Lots of great places to eat/drink
>Least fat people in the country, hands down. Most people in the city are thin and healthy looking.
>if you go up into the mountains, some old prospecting towns from the 1800’s have grandfathered in gambling legalization as sort of a cultural heritage thing. If you want to feel like some ol timey prospector and sit down at a dingy blackjack table it’s worth a trip.
Basically if you want a city that really gives that stereotypical “American” experience, I’d go to Denver. Low key, a lot of Japanese westaboos come here. I see them in cowboy hats and boots lol.
I was debating on going and you have convinced me. I didnt even know what rodeos actually were before lol
Oh man, the funniest shit is Mutton Busting. It’s 5-10 yo kids, they strap a helmet and a vest on them and put them on a sheep which runs around trying to buck them off. Only legal form of child abuse. Lol.
I'd skip San Francisco, Las Vegas, Miami, Orlando and Seattle unless you're going to be visiting for a very long time, Miami especially is kind of a dump and the beaches on the gulf of Mexico are way better, they do have great LatAm cuisine though.
>New York City
As a foreigner you're probably going to want to visit. Is the subway dirty? Yes. Is there city filth? Plenty. But the city is iconic and there's a lot to do. It has pretty much the best of everything. Go see a broadway play or musical while you're here.
>LA
Skip it, you'll be disappointed. It's mostly a sprawling suburb but with tons of homeless shitting up the place. All the hollywood crap is overrated.
>San Francisco
I don't even know what there is to do here. Look at the golden gate bridge? Go see an old abandoned prison (alcatraz)? Rub shoulders with insufferable homosexual techbros and the most violent drug addled insane homeless bums in the nation? It's shit.
>DC
If you're on the east coast it's worth a visit. Tons of great museums, the capital and monuments are nice. Great nightlife and restaurants. You could have a great time in 2 or 3 days.
>Chicago
It's like New York but smaller and with less going for it. The lakefront is nice, you can go on a lake michigan booze cruise. There's some great parks. Lincoln park zoo is free and really nice. Hit up wrigley field, the most historic ballpark in America. But don't go here unless it's summer. The colder months are fricking miserable.
>Las Vegas
You'll either love or hate this place. You have to spend A LOT of money to have a good time here and the city runs on tips. It's an adult disneyland of sin. You can drink, gamble, and frick to your hearts content and weed is legal there now so you can smoke too. I can't understate how expensive literally everything is from lodging to food/drink, and transportation. The city exists to separate you from your money and will even if you dont gamble once.
>Miami
Expensive but great weather and great beaches. Miami beach is iconic with gorgeous art deco architecture. It's the gateway to latin america so you can get great food from everywhere south of the US. If you go here i recommend taking an excursion west out into the everglades for an airboat tour so you can see real alligators in the wild. Pretty cool stuff. You can prob experience Miami in just a few days.
>Orlando
If you really want to go to Disneyworld and Universal studios come here. That's all there is though. Nothing else of note, no beaches nearby.
>Boston
Never been here so im not sure the best spots to visit but it's one of the oldest cities in the country with beautiful architecture and is very walkable.
>Philadelphia
Again like NYC but smaller and with less to do. You can get a cheesesteak and see the liberty bell and independence hall. It's also a very historic city with some beautiful neighborhoods. I guess it's woth like a day of you're going through the east coast.
>seattle
The city is unremarkable but the best thing you can do is visit the surrounding national parks and national forests and do some hiking. There are huge mountains and temperate rainforests and jaw dropping natural beauty everywhere you go. The pacific northwest is a very unique and interesting biome. (Pic related)
>Detroit
>(car factories, museums, 'ruins', etc.)
Yup, that's about it. Good place to watch hockey too.
>Atlanta
>St. Louis
>Memphis
Shitholes overrun by Black folk who will rob you. HARD PASS.
>Pittsburgh
>Cleveland
Smaller post industrial rust belt cities that are trying to make a comeback. Not bad but not worth going out of your way to visit unless you're visiting someone you know.
>Portland
Like seattle but smaller and with more hipsters and weirdos. Lots of homeless shitting up the place, running wild. Again, you're better off visiting surrounding nature areas like Mount Hood.
>New Orleans
Small city but very historic. Bourbon street is a great place to get shitfaced. If you stay in an airbnb make damn sure it's in a good neighborhood because there's some super rough ones here. Eat cajun food like jambalaya and gumbo and shit.
>Texas cities
Entirely suburban and boring. Not worth visiting except maybe Austin which is a young vibrant city with great nightlife and hot girls. Watch a UT football game and experience the spectacle that is American college football.
The last McDonald's in downtown Pittsburgh just closed
I feel like visiting the US for a particularly city doesn't make as much sense as it should. Like going to France to see Paris? Sure. Going to the US to visit DC/NYC? Frick that. If you're going to visit the US, plan a road trip anchored by national parks. The US's charm is in the countryside/small towns. But if that's not doable and it has to be a city, then here's my experiences:
>DC
Good for the historical stuff so you better be really into museums. Georgetown is fun. I don't recall the food there being particularly noteworthy but then I stay with family when I go there so I'm not relying on eating out the entire time.
>Orlando
You will be disappointed.
>Atlanta
There's nothing unique there. If you're coming for food/museums/nightlife/whatever, you can find a better version of that in a lot of other cities. And it's way too expensive for what it is. Like who the hell do you think you are?
>Cleveland
laughing. my. ass. off.
>New Orleans
It's a meme. A dangerous one at that. You absolutely will have at least one confrontation if you go.
Can't really see people who like theme parks be disappointed with Orlando. There's no other reason to go, it's not like it's known for anything else.
is there any cool thing to do in SLC as a foreigner? Maybe like a funky mormon ritual
which small towns tho
any good rodeos in late july?
A ritual like what? Marrying a 12 year old?
there's one in Golden (where the Coors brewery is) in late July. not far from the Denver City Center at all, you could probably take the light rail.
Only reason anyone should go to Orlando is to play golf in the winter time
As a European tourist, I love that so many of us don't think beyond those tier 1 and 2 cities. It would ruin my trips if I couldn't escape them.
I usually only bump into French and Japanese tourists due to their love of hiking and camping. Camping in the US is really slept on by overseas visitors, mostly because they don't want to pack so much stuff. I just buy most of it when I get there and then donate it to Goodwill or something before I fly back. It probably costs me less than they spend on tips at their hotels.
DC is definitely worth a visit - is it a tier-one American city? No, I'd probably say that only New York and Chicago can sit up there without any questions. LA is too difficult to get around, too exclusive - it is almost too American for quality tourism.
However, DC is phenomenal for tourism and you could easily fill a 7-day itinerary in the broader DMV. The museums are an obvious first choice, from the national museums to smaller private museums you are really spoiled for choice. After that, the architecture and design of the city is well worth seeing and there are several neighborhoods in the DC core that are a joy to walk (Shaw, Logan Circle, DuPont, Kalorama, Capitol Hill, Barracks Row, Eckington, Mt. Pleasant, and even the Wharf for an evening).
The nightlife essentially dies at about midnight on a Friday or Saturday, it is not a city known for partying. With that said, there are still a number of phenomenal bars on U Street and 14th, and some clubs do exist (tbh the most lively and fun ones are for Black people or gay guys).
The food scene is exceptional as well, downtown DC has an array of really good upscale food while surrounding cities like Bethesda, Rockville, or Arlington have fantastic food from Asia and Latin America. There is nothing here you could not get anywhere else, but you will have any option you want.
Plus, it is very easy to get around the city.
You had me up until Eckington lad.
Eckington is nice now, mostly young professional families looking for a deal. Plus some cool arts stuff and access to a good biking trail.
And, not every place you visit in DC should represent wealth. Sometimes traveling requires you see other things too.
>in terms of sightseeing, cultural venues, dining, fun stuff
see that's the problem though, is that you'll come to find that 99% of the cities here are pretty much the same even the cultural oases like new york city, new orleans, miami etc. is nothing like it used to be.
it's not the "overpolitization" but rather just that these cities were built for function, particularly around automobiles, then hollowed out, gentrified, and now hollowed out again. they just completely lack soul and the venues are literally a dime a dozen, the "food culture" is bullshit too. you see on those food shows some fatass gets some bbq from a food truck owned by some cambodian refugee or something and talk about cleveland's "unique" fusion bla bla bla. just mix and match food truck + Pee Oh Cee fusion and it applies to any american city.
The most interesting cities are:
New York City
Washington DC
Miami
New Orleans
Chicago
Salt Lake City
Asheville
Savannah
Charleston
Las Vegas
Everything else is either a cookie cutter dime a dozen shithole or absolutely overrun by homeless violent tweakers in tents, which also exist in the above listed cities but at least those ones have something interesting about them.
If you want to visit America, you should come for the nature, and cities should come secondary. Otherwise you'll be disappointed.
I am going to Salt Lake next month on the way to Yellowstone, can you suggest some stuff to do?
I can. The first thing you should do is go see Park City where they do the Sundance Film Festival. You have to stop in Lava Hot Springs Idaho for a day and go tubing. The creek is fed from a hot spring and the water is 75 degrees all year. There is a spot on the creek where everyone cliff jumps. It's a super cool little town with some cheap dive bars. You also have to do a day in the Tetons and go do the Jenny Lake Hike. Stopping at Jackson Hole is mandatory. The food is amazing. Definitely spend 2 nights in Jackson Hole. You should definitely think about taking a white water rafting trip on the Snake River while you're in Jackson if the weather is good.