I'm looking to live in France for long term, possibly base myself out here. I've come to Lyon and I am trying to decide if I want to stay here or go elsewhere.
Here is some background.
>I like sighsee stuff, mountains specificifally
>I don't like it when it rains too much or there's barely any sun for much of the year, so everything North is pretty much off limits
>I liked Paris for arts, etc., so ideally a city that is similarly rich in architecture and things to see
>Med climate is ideal, but I'd settle for something similar to Northern Italy (Lyon seems similar, maybe slightly colder)
>rents are not insane, but they're not shithole tier either
>must have loads of young people as I want to go out and fuck girls
Also I don't have any specific career. Rn I'd take any job, from cashier to dishwasher, find a room to rent and then find better opportunities. I have some business and self employment ideas, but it doesn't seem easy to set up rn where I am not settled yet.
>I'd take any job, from cashier to dishwasher
Those jobs have been replaced by uber driver, restaurants took a hit with the Plandemic.
If not for the cold climate, i'd tell you to settle down near the border with Switzerland, so you can get x2 salary in Switzerland while paying lower rents in France.
so lyon and dijon it is.
I'm not op but I'm absolutely in love with the area around the south of france, north of italy and I'd like to move there some day. being that close to the beaches of the riviera and the alps turns me on since i'm into /out shit.
I'm an it/finance moron by trade and training, I might also do good with engineering. where do you suggest I could move?
btw I'm biased towards italy since I could learn the language faster and I'm told is less expensive, but if the pay is better in france then france it is.
also another question, could italian be useful in southern france, or is there a point to learning occitan/provencal. I can read french but speaking it is painful, it feels like vomiting words and random vowels
You pretty much described Nice and the surrounding area (Cannes, Antibes etc, basically the French Riviera and the "arrière-pays niçois").
Not the cheapest area of France, possibly one of the most expensive ones but nowhere as crazy as Paris, especially if you're not after some nice house with a view over the sea.
It has mountains within 20 minutes of driving, and 1.5-2 hours takes you to ski stations and national parks (and there are buses taking you there).
It's right next to Northern Italy, the climate is absolutely great most of the year.
There's nice architecture in the area, more job opportunities than in many areas of France, population is quite young as young people from all over France come work here.
Yes, it can get expensive, but it's still cheaper than Paris and it's still ok to live there if you don't get too close to the sea. The further you are from the sea, the cheaper it is.
You can speak Italian to Italians but French people in Southern France do not speak Italian in general. Occitan/Provencal is utterly useless, you have better odds with Italian kek.
>t. I partially live there
how is the jobs market. again, not op. I'm very interested. I'm a sucker for the med sea in that area, and for french architecture, which is one the reasons I like turin so much, despite being kinda dirty and having the most polluted air in europe.
It's one of the better places in France to find job.
Restaurants and hotels need a lot of part-timers, there's some software, tech and engineering industry (most of the people I know are in tech and/or engineering), and it's quite populated so there's always something.
I have family in Montpelier, it can be nice but it's full of gypsies, and has some crime issue.
You don't have to be in Nice, but the small towns and areas around Nice are great. Especially the smaller villages, it's not too touristy except for some of them. Pic related, within the red outlines is mostly chill and still affordable, except for some very posh villages.
Not saying Cannes is bad, far from it, I still enjoy it daily, but it can get stupid touristy on the weekends and in summer it's tourist hell.
It has a lot of things to do (parks, national parks, zoos, museums) and it's very populated by French standards so there's always something to do for kids. There are international schools as well.
thanks for the detailed axplanation, I'll look into it
I've been looking at Montpellier and it seems like a real gem. Room prices are similar to Lyon despite being 10km from Med sea. Also doesn't seem as touristic as the other riviera cities, but neither so big it has big city urban issues like Paris or Marseille. To be honest Lyon is a good city objectively, but I somehow don't get the gut feeling this is the place for me. Somehow for such a big and beautiful city it seems equally forgettable and formless. That fake Eiffel thing bugs the shit out of me too.
arent monpellier and marseille crime-ridden moron containment zones?
I have heard Marseille always had bad rep even without immigration, but I've never heard anyone say anything bad about Montpellier. I've been to Nice twice and I liked it, but I didn't want to live there. I've been to Aix-en-Provence, which was also a beautiful city and I liked it. Lots of people recommend Montpellier as a great city, but then again many say Lyon is great... and they're correct. Lots of things happening, loads of young people, Alps just around the corner, also massif central, med sea just 2h away, but I somehow don't see myself living here. Something really bothers me about this place and I can't put my finger to it.
How's the social scene for kids? I keep weighing up Valencia and Nice for when we reproduce leave England.
I lived in Valencia, Spain, and it was very nice. OP here. It's cheap, very chilled out, loads of young people, and you got a great bouldering area nearby. But it's a fairly small city, once you see everything you can get bored of it. There's good food and eating out is very cheap, especially if you speak Spanish and avoid all tourist traps like an intelligent person always would. Do you have any specific questions?
I suppose is it a dynamic place to raise a family or is it more geared towards expats / FIRE types? Been on holiday and loved it but wasn't sure it'd have enough there to relocate permensntly.
They have a fair amount of tourism, but it didn't strike me as an expat city in particular. Most of those types go off to Madrid, being the capital, or Barcelona. IIRC the houses are more affordable too. It still has some edgy shit like crappy 'ANTIFA ZONE' graffiti, but in reality most people are extremely chill. Never had any crime issues or felt unsafe. There's stuff open until very late in the night. Even very late I'd sometimes see families. It's a beautiful city, but much like the rest of Spain it very ugly modern civil architecture (France and Italy have their share too, but Spain is arguably dogshit when it comes to this). There's lots of smaller towns nearby which are cosy for a visit or possibly work out as a home too. Sagunto in particular. Albaraccin is one of the best places for bouldering in the world, and it is close by. The metro is cheap and covers pretty much covers most of the city. Maybe rent an Airbnb for a month and see how you find it? Then check out different suburbs, etc. I rented a small studio flat in the city center for 540 + bills, and split it with my ex. So we ended up paying each like 300€ per month.
In bong terms it's Manchester without the employment market or chavs.
Population, city size, relatively low property prices, next to lots of countryside, horrific traffic.
Yes but Manchester is a shithole.
It is. But it's comparible is size and stuff to do (discounting the weather and coast).
So Valencia is like at least twenty other European cities that are nothing like it kekkekeekkek
There aren't many cities of Manchester's size in Europe. Begone kekcel.
It's just your comparison is inane, size alone doesn't say that much about a city. Stuttgart is quite big in relative terms, but it's absolutely boring, meanwhile Bath is tiny but I found loads more to do there.
Bath is great for a day trip and that's about it.
>he doesn't know
> it doesn't have to be green
Spain has crazy high CGT and a Global wealth tax (3.5%).
How's the cooming there? Especially if you're not a rich oligarch visiting on his superyacht?
>How's the cooming there?
France is an open-air brothel for foreigners. The women are very loose, they have bad experiences with French chads early on. So they prefer to date foreigners whenever they can. Legit every French girl I've ever met has had a foreign boyfriend or expressed a fascination with men from a different country.
He's talking about women in Southern France, not Parisians
You might consider Toulouse as well. It's the fourth largest city in the country (after Paris, Lyon, and Marseille). It's what passes for a tech hub in France, with AirBus and some startups around to provide jobs. It's a university town, so it has a very active nightlife. The bars around the Place Saint-Pierre are always PACKED, especially Chez Tonton (even on weekdays). Le Saint des Seins is also worth checking out, though that one only gets busy on weekends.
Rents are cheap, the climate is very good since the city is so far south. The only downside I can think of is the fact that it's so far inland. But there's lakes and shit you can do a day trip to in the summer.
Unfortunately, there's many blacks, but that can't be helped these days when it comes to France. It didn't seem as bad as other cities, though.
Pic related, a summer night along the Garonne
Toulouse is also on my list! Right now I am thinking
>maybe stay here in Lyon
Montpelier is a shithole.
Is it though? How would you compare to Lyon?
also how's owning a car there? I'm very much into owning a car and driving it. while I have ridden on trains a lot in my younger years I now find the idea abhorent from the single fact that a car gives you so much freedom when traveling, whereas with a train you're kind of stuck to the areas around the station unless you plan on paying out the taxi drivers a whole bunch of money.
so what I'm saying is how much taxes need to be paid, for the car and for parking spaces
also living in south germany a good idea if you want to visit the sights in france, italy, austria and swizz.
from what I've gathered online the pay is better, living costs are lower and you can easily travel by car or train to other cunts easily if you're living in say munich or along the rhine.
the only downside is germans, which might not be so bad for some people necesarily
Cannes /Antibes. Nice has a crime issue.
Currently in Nice, it's really nice. The only problem I have it's extremely hard to rent an ordinary apartment without having a French job, bank and/or guarantor.
Do you know Frenchbros the way to circumvent that (aside from paying 3 months in advance?)
OP here. How hard it is to rent a room? I'm in mid 20's, and I don't mind sharing the room with noisy uni students.
tbh I haven't pursued a room rental so I don't know. But from my experience with Mexico, Brazil, and Poland it's probably much easier without many restrictions or bureaucracy.
Well, it would be best for you to arrive here first, stay for a few days in a hotel and make some reconnaissance. If I were you I would have picked something directly on the seaside like Antibes, which also has a good train connection to Cannes and Nice.
Btw. keep in mind that currently there could be some strikes occurring. For example, last and next Tuesday almost all public transport is shut off
[check https://www.lignesdazur.com/en/perturbation/585 ]
Regarding safety, I am not a native. My observation is that everything above the train line in Nice seems sketchy (maybe except for Cimiez). Not to mention parts further North like Point Michel, which looked like someplace from 4chan webms.
The important thing - be wary of pickpockets on public transport. I witnessed with my very own eyes as a group of Gypsy women tried to pickpocket some Chinese woman. tbh I was clueless at that moment since earlier I spend a year in Asia, so I forgot those people (Gypsies) exist.
I am currently in an AirBnB. The problem is their prices are 2-4 times the normal rent price plus it's impossible to rent them in the long term due to already being booked at some point in the future or have already someone living there on day to day basis (correct me if I'm wrong, but in France, there is a law which prohibits renting Airbnb for longer than 120 days. Thus my 2 previous stays were in apartments normally occupied by the host or their family).
Regarding hotels, among the common brands, Ibis Styles seems to be the cheapest, which is still relatively expensive for the long term (ca. 80$ per night).
Is it a pretty safe place? This thread is very interesting, I'm staying in the south of france soon, I'm worried that somewhere like a small town might feel too isolated or tiny compared to the other big cities in europe i'll be staying on my trip (london, vienna). I found some great places to stay in Mougins, can i just rent a car and then drive around from there? I can't decide whether to stay in nice/or small town 10-20 minutes away from the coast, any advice from anyone?
Yeah, with a car everything is within reach. Cannes, Nice, small villages, mountains… Mougins is one of the fanciest “villages” out there.
Try airbnb, I suppose, or a cheap hotel.
Yes, I like fancy, I'm travelling with my girlfriend so we like the fancy places. I don't like having to deal with gypsies/beggars etc. ty for advice/
Thank you for the advice, this is a great thread, I'll do some more research, I've visited the south of france before but I never really explored any of the small villages outside the big cities. I won't be going to france for 3 more months so i'm not too worried about the strikes right now, but thank you for the advice.
Whenever I visit my gf who lives in Cannes, I always liked going to Mougins. There’s nothing much apart from restaurants, parks and a nice village centre but it’s just nice to look at. The whole area is nice. There are some towns to avoid such as Vallauris because it’s full of immigrants but if you drive through you won’t notice much, as the ols buildings are still pretty to look at.
Honestly, what I love the most about the area is basically all the Pré-Alpes area right next to Cannes; it’s basically a mountainous zone but not crazy high with easy access. Villages like Andon, Saint Cesaire sur Siagne etc are just so nice.
Then if you go further up behind Nice, towards Mercantour, it’s another deal. It’s called the arrière-pays niçois and yeah, you get real mountains and you basically have alpine villages, but southern french/northern italian style. Very charming and extremely safe. Immigrants hate mountains.
>The only problem I have it's extremely hard to rent an ordinary apartment without having a French job, bank and/or guarantor.
You can try Facebook groups for expats or apartments in the area. I've run into people willing to rent to me under the table this way. They save on taxes, so it's win-win.
It'll be an uphill battle though, because French landlords are jumpy about renting to those who aren't copacetic. This is because they have the most retarded squatting laws in the world. morons break into boomers' houses while they're on vacation. By the time they arrive, they've been around for a month, so they can't be evicted. The owner has to initiate a legal process that could last years to get his own property back.
Make sure your online presence isn't dodgy before you reach out to people looking for a place to stay. You'll end up paying for the low-trust environment one way or another, either by paying more or paying upfront. I don't think there's anything you can do about that, I'm afraid. Even on AirBnB, some boomer bitch cancelled my stay because I didn't have any reviews.
>It'll be an uphill battle though, because French landlords are jumpy about renting to those who aren't copacetic. This is because they have the most retarded squatting laws in the world. morons break into boomers' houses while they're on vacation. By the time they arrive, they've been around for a month, so they can't be evicted. The owner has to initiate a legal process that could last years to get his own property back.
This is the gayest shit ever. I don't even know how these old time boomers voted politicians into existence who put these laws through the motions. Usually retarded boomers put laws that are pretty good for themselves but absolute dogshite for everyone else.
Thanks for the advice!
Unironically Marseille, of course it can be sketchy but you'd have no reason to go to the 3rd world tier parts of the city just as you wouldn't travel to California to visit Compton or whatever
Also the Pyrénées are nearby.
They're still like two hours away by car, so not really