Asking for practical advice from people with actual experience:
>how much affection can be shown publicly?
>what small things that aren't a big deal for us are frowned upon?
I have a general idea about muslim countries, but i have never been to one with a gf
>how much affection can be shown publicly?
Look what the locals are doing and then do a bit less than that.
If that doesn't help just keep it at a level like you were going to meet her parents for the first time.
>what small things that aren't a big deal for us are frowned upon?
Not being married and sharing the same room.
Good thing is that you can just pretend to be married, makes things much easier, even with liberal hosts.
(OP)
Moroccanfag here.
Morocco, and muslim countries in general, tend to give foreigners a lot of leeway because they understand the culture is different. They have millions of tourists coming every year, especially during the summer, and the ties with france and spain are particularly strong, historically, diplomatically and culturally too. The only thing they're not okay with is what they perceive to be obvious marks of disrespect. No faux pas will actually be taken personally by most locals. Morocco is the most liberal arab country there is.
In terms of public displays of affection, everything short of kissing is fine. You can hug your gf, hold her hands, etc. It's ok to talk to women, and since you're with your gf i'm guessing you're not going to be flirting anyway so it should be fine. To be perfectly honest, if you kissed, there wouldn't be a lynching either. A local would just call you out and that's it.
>what small things that aren't a big deal for us are frowned upon?
pretty much nothing. Except maybe one : there are liquor stores all over the place, and they usually sell you stuff in black bags or shit like that. Don't show alcohol on you. Also, a big hallmark of a tourist restaurant with high markups is that they sell alcohol. If a restaurant sells alcohol, i guarantee you'll see only foreigners in there.
BTW, don't have any pity towards the panhandlers, especially the pushy ones or the kids. They earn a lot of fucking money while the guys doing the real jobs don't get none and then they take that money to their parents who are basically pimping them out. Please don't perpetuate this.
Don't listen to this retarded larper. Morocco isn't fucking ISIS. You're a white dude in a room with another woman, who cares ? they know you guys won't fuck. People also have out of marriage gfs so they really don't give a damn about you having a partner. I am from the more conservatives parts of Morocco and even we aren't stuck up like this guy.
nice, tysm based anon!
does it mean she doesn't need to bother with covering her head? will there be a big difference between touristic places and rural areas? I mostly enjoy visiting forgotten by world villages and towns untrodden by white feet.
Also, will i be able to find a place full of wild flowers in the middle of february?
And finally, do you have any idea what could be a nice gift from poland for some friendly locals?
>does it mean she doesn't need to bother with covering her head? will there be a big difference between touristic places and rural areas?
There won't be any. There are lots of Moroccan women who don't wear a headscarf. This isn't Iran dude, pretty much everything you can do in the West you can do in Morocco short of french kissing your girl in the mouth.
>I mostly enjoy visiting forgotten by world villages and towns untrodden by white feet.
There's a chance pretty much everyone has seen a white person in their lives in Morocco and I suggest, especially on a first trip, that you start with the more mainstream stuff like Ouarzazate, Essaouira, Chefchaouen, etc.
If you really want to do something no white people do, go through the berber coast. So basically, start from Tangier and go west from there, so Ceuta (it is in spain though so you might need a visa, in which case skip it), Tetouan, Al Hoceima, Nador, Saidia. Don't hesitate to stop in the small towns in the vicinity (Martil, Oued Laou, Ksar Sghir) In some of these coastal towns like Al Hoceima or Ksar Sghir, the sun sets right into the sea, which is a pretty cool sight.
cont.
cont'd
>will there be a big difference between touristic places and rural areas?
Yes. Rural areas are not used to foreigners so they won't go around panhandling or scamming you. This being said, most of these folks barely speak anything but their dialect. Fuck, in the Rif, they barely even speak moroccan. Also, it IS a third world country as much as it saddens me to admit, so stay safe. Don't go out at night if you're not in the car, don't follow anybody into some weird shit. You should at least tread in populous areas and be constantly aware of whether you're in one, or if it's deserted. If you're in a street where you don't see people walking anymore, stop and retrace your steps. A white couple can be a high value target for mugging. I am serious about that. Also, you should always spend your nights in a well populated area.
now i'm not saying that something will 100% happen to you but the truth is that whatever happened to these poor girls years ago happened because they didn't do precisely that.
>Also, will i be able to find a place full of wild flowers in the middle of february?
Morocco isn't really well known for its flowers. It's more about the mountains, the beaches and the sand dunes down south.
>And finally, do you have any idea what could be a nice gift from poland for some friendly locals?
kabanos, we love it there.j/k
Anything without pork or alcohol is fine. Now if you really want to give something they won't just put somewhere and let the dust accumulate, idk, polish boxes ? those decorative little boxes you guys make are cool I guess ? something in this style.
>Fuck, in the Rif, they barely even speak moroccan.
"moroccan" isn't a language my colonialist-french and imperialist-arab friend.
>This isn't Iran
lol, i've actually been to iran and took some ideas from there.
> mugging
now this saddens me
All the muslim countries (and iran) i visited so far have been extremely safe in that regard, except maybe for these fucking stray dogs.
>you should always spend your nights in a well populated area.
no chance, i sleep in the forest or outside of populated places at the very least. No worries tho, finding me there is not an easy task. I'm not the touristic type at all.
>Morocco isn't really well known for its flowers.
that was my guess with the desert and what not, but i'm still hoping for some romantic miracle for the valentines day
>decorative little boxes
i had to google that stuff myself, only then i realised what were you talking about. I'm amazed you guys know these things exist. Very well, i'll see what can i lay my hands on.
Thank you for all the help, i appreciate it very much.
One last question, could you give me some general tips about haggling? First, should i haggle for any product or are some prices fixed ,like meals or so? And just about how to proceed with haggling?
oh and is weed 100% legal? can i safely travel with it?
will i be able to find a place full of wild flowers in the middle of february?
That's a weird niche question, but you're in luck. Late January/early February is peak season for the almond blossoms. For me it's just like the photos of Japan's cherry blossoms. You'll find big almond groves in the High Atlas and Anti Atlas which are explosions of pink and white.
I dunno if there are many almond trees in the north, I've never noticed any.
Damn I haven't looked through these photos for years thanks for the excuse
Sorry just one more, I've never shared these before
>any idea what could be a nice gift from poland for some friendly locals?
Moroccans go fucking crazy for European chocolate. Not dark chocolate or anything a Westerner would consider 'fancy', they prefer it sweet. Whatever the Polish equivalent of a Galaxy or Cadbury bar is, would be considered 'arumi', i.e. foreign and exciting.
amazing, thank you so much!
i'm totally going to look for a grove like that.
are they all owned by farmers, or can they be found wild?
>European chocolate
cool tip, thank you! i'll totally go for it
You’ll find them in cultivated valleys everywhere in the High Atlas and in the Souss region. But if you go searching for something, you might not find it. Just go with an open mind and I promise almond blossoms won’t be the only surprise you find. I think it’s really cool you and your gf want to just run around in the mountains and get to know the Berber people.
>really cool you and your gf want to just run around in the mountains
Yeah, that's how they'll end up with their heads chopped off.
took me many years to find a person who enjoys that.
can you recommend some more precise location around Atlas?
it's sad you would form opinions based on the tv news, gay
it's funny you would form opinions based on the tv news, gay and get your head chopped like those roasties
>more precise location around Atlas?
I mean I don't know how long you have or what your priorities are. You'll find the friendliest people in the Tafraoute region, which has a cool African vibe. Tafraoute used to have an almond blossom festival but I dunno if they still do. The most impressive area in the High Atlas is the valley between Imsfrane and Taghia, but it's not easy to get to, I had to hitchhike and walk.
Imlil is very impressive and easy to access, but keep in mind what
says about scammers in touristic areas. Dades Gorge is great too.
If you plan on camping it's very easy. Learn a little bit of the local Berber dialect and the locals will fucking love you.
Regarding your question about headscarves, I took my wife to the Souss which is the most conservative area, and we had no problems. She wore a tshirt, long pants, and a scarf around her neck.
>I don't know how long you have or what your priorities are.
me neither, lol. it's going to be quite spontaneous.
but i suppose i have ~1 month and i just want to be in the nature and making some friends.
> I had to hitchhike and walk.
that's the only thing i ever do
so do they only know Berber, or are there any more languages i could use? i'd like to download some offline translator to communicate better
All men speak Moroccan Arabic and either French or English (Spanish if you’re north of Fes). Berber women are less likely to speak a European language, and many don’t even know Arabic.
Northerner here, to be honest no one speaks spanish anymore and i'm from fucking Tangier. People in Ceuta and Melilla will, for obvious reasons, but i doubt you'll get lucky in the middle of the year.
You **could** try your luck with modern standard arabic and a text to speech. They may not read it, but they hear it on TV and at the mosque. But the most remote places out there, doubtful.
Tunisia is smaller and I would say a bit modern ON AVERAGE. but Morocco will have the whole range of basically world-class amenities in certain cities like Marrakech to very poor in remote areas and it evens out to something slightly lower than Tunisia. It is proper third world shit too.
lmao. The Moroccan "dialect" is a language (the only difference between the two terms is political really) and part of the Moroccan identity for centuries. It's a creole formed from MSA and the local berber variants spoken by the locals. And every "dialect" in the arab world has been created through a similar process. It is real, and it is part of the fucking reason why we just struggle mentally as a people.
We have received no formal education, no training, read not a single book on philosophy, literature or STEM in our own language. And that's the language we think, dream and talk with. Not MSA. Everyone who's out of high school and hasn't received formal education in MSA can barely have a conversation. I've seen it in fucking Mecca of all places where people struggle like retards to talk in MSA so they can be understood, and the others don't even bother and just use their own dialect, kek.
And this is true for all of us in the "arab league". We speak a language but we've never read shit about it. Raising this matter has been my favorite shitpost subject in moroccan groups on facebook, btw.
"Moroccan" isn't a language in the same way "Chinese" isn't a language. You've got your imported and bastardized maghribi arab dialect, and three separate berber langauges.
You can stamp your foot and huff and puff and repeat the same statement all you want, it won't change the reality that Moroccan is the majority language spoken in the country. importation and bastardization is the condition of all languages throughout history. Tarifit has around 50% of its words borrowed from other languages.
"dialect" is a political term. If Moroccan is a "dialect", then so is Italian. My guess is you're just a self-hating moroccan who's ashamed of the language he speaks. Sad.
Interesting perspective. You think MSA is really the path to development for young people? Arabic hasn't been the language of intellectuals/influencers since the 1400s. Morocco's current strategy seems to be to speak any redneck dialect you like at home, but you better speak excellent French or English or you'll never succeed. Seems sound to me.
You don't get my post at all. The point isn't MSA or English or French, but the "redneck dialects" you're talking about. That's the one people SPEAK and THINK with. They're languages Their existence predates certain modern European languages. It is deliberately under-developed because of political reasons. Which in turn forces everyone in the country, leaders included, to speak in an overly-simplified, orally-based doublespeak, which in turn impacts the way you think and view things.
"Just speak French or English bro" isn't enough. 99.99% of the population will never reach a level of fluency akin to the language you were raised with. Managerially speaking, it will always be far more efficient to speak your local language, and just switch to English when stuff gets techincal... Which is what literally every country does. It would be counter-productive wouldn't tell to tell Swedes to drop their own written language and focus on English.
In terms of workload, it would just mean that instead of studying French, MSA and English, you'll just drop the french and learn your ""dialect"" instead. French is obsolete as a lingua franca or as the language of intellectuals for the same reason MSA is, except MSA takes precedence for obvious religious reasons. While it may not have been true 70 years ago, France is now just another trade partner. A foremost one, sure, but just that. Spain is the top in imports and exports and you don't see us getting mandatory spanish classes.
This being said, the real reason deep down as to why we do this shit is because most people in the Arab League want to belong to something more than their countries. A berber union, an arab union, a muslim union, or even a commonwealth of former colonies. It's been a century now and it didn't work, so maybe it's time to do like the Turks did ever since the Ottomans, or the Indonesians and their exponential growth rate, and focus on ourselves rather than sucking some idealized dick/symbol.
Why do you have some extremely creepy men? I had a swede friend who the moment she went out of the airport, she got shoved into a car with no explanation and driven to a strange building that wasn’t her hotel. She’s led into a room with a chair. Everybody leaves the room, which she then takes as the opportunity to leave quickly.
She also got groped numerous times in public, and one time some creep followed her sll the way outside to literally her hotel room door.
She has solo traveled to numerous third world shitholes and never did she experience anything remotely like this
sounds like any other day in india
No, she actually went to India alone and experienced none of this.
>She’s led into a room with a chair. Everybody leaves the room, which she then takes as the opportunity to leave quickly.
how tf does she just slip out of a building filled with peopel
it was easy once everything started falling apart
she pushed a wall, it fell like a decoration. She never looked back
how does she get kidnapped hte moment shes out of the airport. isnt the airport grounds well guarded. and why did she go alone as a woman is she dumb
>implying it's not easier to just pretend to be married
If you do it right your gf will enjoy the whole larp, works well as a relationship test.
>implying it's not easier to just be yourself
go to /LULZ/ and write your larp fantasies there.
How does Morocco compare to Tunisia? I've only been to Tunisia but that's some proper third world shit.
Good album in pic rel
Used to date a Moroccan girl, Rebat is amazing. If your white, women will approach you and hit on you in the streets even if you have your woman there with you.
It’s a great country and super safe. Ignore the panhandlers.
I was engaged and was planning on doing the multiple wives, but everything fell apart.
Pic related
her features are too big, big mouth big nose
My man that’s a 40% moron
Nah bro Morocco is off limits, its simply too dangerous, didn't you hear about the Scandinavian girls who got killed YEARS ago?
lol, I was in the headchopping village Imlil about a year after that murder incident. It's the most harmless and peaceful rural town you can imagine, the average British city sees more jihadi terrorism than Morocco does
Lol. Western women want to go camping alone in an undeveloped country full with religious muslims an think that's ok. People are delusional. But yes, Morocco is pretty safe as long as you don't do stupid shit. The major problem is the touts.
But bro there's an unending train of solo female travelers going around the tourist circuit. They go to music fetivals, rub their crusty vaginas in the sand and stop at hostels when they run low on drugs. True, most complain about sexual harassment in some form or another. But the fact is the Imlil incident represents the only 2 terrorism-related deaths in the Atlas region since the French occupation ended. Could that be considered, oh I dunno, an isolated incident?
That's also the impression I got - a lot of the female solo travelers in Essaouira and Imlil were complaining about the annoying touts and sex harrassers, but they were following a backpacker circuit and nobody was in any danger at all. It wasn't all that different from hostels in India or Indonesia
Yes, it is isolated. I'm just saying that there is obvious riskier destinations, behaviours... And who you are is an important part of the way people will treat you, for better or worse. A foreigner travelling in Brazil will be better treated than a random brazilian travelling in the same place. The foreigner might be scammed though. A white guy probably will be better treated than a black one. A women will have much more people inclined to help in case of need. She will also face much more risk in secluded locations as sex crimes against men are close to non existent (at least where I live).
Anyway, biology and culture, along with your personal traits, will determine what you will face.
Want to visit Switzerland? Great, piece of cake for everyone. Perhaps some ill treatment if you look like a poor gay, which might be due some racism. Afghanistan? Well, not advisable as a solo woman (not even sure if possible nowadays).
That's pretty much how life works. Most people tha go to Rio de Janeiro, foreigners or brazilians, do not get robbed. But it does happens time to time. If you go to a conservative, secluded area in a muslim country, where women do not camp or walk without a guardian, and also dress in a certain way, guess what? Yes, you're facing a higher risk than a foreign man. And he's facing a higher risk than a native man. Simple as that.
So should you avoid it? Well, it's up to you. People have different risk aversion. Even as a man I would camp only in a larger group. In Brazil I only camp in very specific locations as it seem to be even more dangerous than Morocco (in camping, as a whole it's definitely more dangerous).
You might go to Pakistan wearing a giant cross in your t shirt and walk around with a bible and nothing ever happen (probably ilegal though). I do think it is much safer if you look like pakistani men, wear those clothes of them and keep your religious views to yourself. Common sense.
>full with religious muslims
There have been more islamic terrorist attacks in the US than in Morocco in the last years. Orlando, NYC, Corpus Christi and so on.
More like it has nothing to do with "religious muslims" and more to do with socio-economic reasons. That's the point.
>If you go to a conservative, secluded area in a muslim country, where women do not camp or walk without a guardian, and also dress in a certain way, guess what? Yes, you're facing a higher risk than a foreign man. And he's facing a higher risk than a native man. Simple as that.
And this is why larpers should stick to talking about the stuff they know about and not extrapolate.Not all muslims are the same, not all muslim countries were built under the same conditions, and Islam in general has so many flavors considering someone to be a "muslim" in a vacuum pretty much gives you no information on his behavior, especially with non-muslim people.
Morocco and moroccans, even in secluded areas, couldn't possibly care less about a foreigner dressing the way they want to and their women often roam freely without a guardian. The reason why the murders happened weren't triggered by the existence of foreigners in the country or their behavior, but because 18 dudes decided to side with ISIS, show their support for the Syrian branch, and go ahead and behead the first foreigners they saw there, and if none, the security/cops that were around. Historically, Morocco got decolonized pretty softly, curates its muslim administration so it and the government are on the same wavelength, and cooperation with Europe is key to the country's bottom line.
Which is not quite the same as Pakistan who has a consistent history of being fucked over by non muslims (westerners with the british raj, hindus with India). Stick with commenting about shit you know rather than repeating whatever you saw on the first season of Jack Ryan.
Based and wholesome
I know a lot of fanatic Wahabi nutcases in Morocco and they all share a deep, seething hatred of ISIS and terrorists in general.
Why do you pick one line of what I said to show your skill of introductory history of muslim countries?
Lol. They got into Isis and beheaded foreigners for socioeconomic reasons? Sure its a component but, yes, religions is also a component.
Yeah, I know Pakistan is much different (although never been there). Like I said, the point is the risk is different from country to country, area to area. I also said that Morocco is ok. The worse you face there is touts usually. But you do face more risk alone in the mountains as woman than as part of a group of men in Rabat. That's obvious. Also not advisable to walk around in a bikini showing your pussy lips, nor in a speedo showing your cock. In a beach in Spain it might be ok. Why is it hard to understand?
Move the goalposts all you want but religion has literally nothing to do with anything you said. You just explained why poor people mug people. Women are more at risk because, well, they're weaker. People in secluded areas are more at risk because they're secluded. Wearing a bikini at the beach is something a shit ton of moroccan women do. Saying everything has inherent risk is retarded because it's obvious. What seems to be less obvious to you is that even as a groupe of fucking white women alone in a "secluded" village, even taking account that tragedy, you are less likely to get killed than taking the plane, taking a car, or ironically dying from food poisoning during your stay, lol. In other words, no risk at all. So your advice is really just horse shit when applied to Morocco.
Religion isn't a cause, it's a pretext. Just like political ideologies. Or you know, pretending to have weapons of mass destructions.
Morocco is a degenerate shithole, a gay couple can sodomize each other in the middle of street and no one will touch them, why? because tourists are the main source of money for the Moroccans they will let anything slide as long it's good for tourism