Norway and Switzerland seem to be the only two European countries with decent wages. Which is better to immigrate to?

Norway and Switzerland seem to be the only two European countries with decent wages. Which is better to immigrate to? Switzerland seems like a better place in terms of earnings for educated folk and has much better weather than Norway, but the housing situation is shit and they don't give permanent residence easily.
I'm a Canadian looking to get out of his soulless shithole of a country.

  1. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    One word. Taxes.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Huh?

      Both countries will shun you as an outsider, both will reject you as a newcomer to their society.

      unless you are turbo autism and have societal backing your are lost.

      I've always been a loner so I don't really care about being accepted.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Huh what? You 12? Taxes means money you give to the government. You pay taxes in these countries. Got it?

  2. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Both countries will shun you as an outsider, both will reject you as a newcomer to their society.

    unless you are turbo autism and have societal backing your are lost.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      > these societies will treat you like an autist rather than the well-adjusted human being you are back home
      h-huh wow that's harsh

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Both countries will shun you as an outsider, both will reject you as a newcomer to their society.
      Are you a woman, who the fuck cares? I'm going there to make money not friends with redditors.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      So you're telling me people won't befriend someone who doesn't speak their language or share any cultural aspects with them? No fucking way, unbelievable!
      Also you're on fucking sighsee mate, why the fuck do you think this matters to anyone? If you're here you're also shunned by the society in your own country anyway

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >society
      only thing that matters is pussy and roasties love foreigner cock

  3. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    They are a lot more expensive. Pretty sure switzerland is near impossible to imigrate too. If you want 6 figures of monopoly money every year then stay in your money obsessed, diseased shithole, it is perfect for you and is a resupt of people like you.

  4. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Switzerland seems like a better place in terms of earnings for educated folk and has much better weather than Norway, but the housing situation is shit and they don't give permanent residence easily.
    American expat in Switzerland here. You’re right that salaries are typically high for educated expat professionals. But it needs to be taken into consideration that salaries are so high in part because the cost of living is comparably high.

    To give you just one reference point, a main course at an unremarkable sit-down restaurant (most anything that isn’t a kebab shop, supermarket takeaway, or fast-food joint) will cost around CHF20 to start, which is almost $27 Canadian. That’s not for anything special—we’re taking about a plate of pasta or something. When I get Thai takeout for my family of four (two adults, two kids, none of us particularly gluttonous), I’m never spending less than CHF100 (CAD133). Add to this that Swiss restaurants are almost never very good and you understand why my family all but quit eating out when we moved here from San Francisco.

    Another expenditure to be aware of is health insurance, which is mandatory and not public like in Canada nor employer-subsidized like in the States. Everyone must pay out of pocket for at least a minimum policy, and most people add a supplemental policy for more comprehensive coverage. I have chronic conditions to deal with, so I am an unusually expensive case, but my insurance costs more than CHF1000/month. My healthy kids who see doctors almost never cost almost 400/mo. On the plus side, quality of care is excellent, although specialists have waiting lists.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Permanent residency is bureaucratic and annoying in a lot of ways, but it’s mostly dependent on continued employment. You can’t move to Switzerland without a contract already in hand (unless you have an EU passport in addition to your Canadian passport), but if you stay employed and don’t break the law you can obtain permanent residency within… I think it’s five years? Note that permanent residency lapses if you leave, though, so if you were to get it and move back to Canada for a period you would be back on temporary residency and have to restart the clock when you got back.

      Happy to answer specific questions if you have them.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Are Swiss people really as cold and abrasive as they're made out to be?

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Looks like you've fallen for the meme

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          I know that Swiss German are known to be the most autistic and boring of all the Germanics.

          Are Swiss people really as cold and abrasive as they're made out to be?

          This is 80% meme. Swiss Germans in my experience are often rather shy, so they’re definitely not an outgoing people, but if you can manage to make friends they are a fun and even cheerful lot. Mostly very conservative and reserved, though.

          There is a widespread belief in making sure that people follow rules/standard operating procedures (I would argue that it’s more important to most people to make sure others follow the rules than it is to follow the rules oneself), and a common feature of customer service is to tell you off about why you’ve done something wrong before fixing whatever problem or providing any service. But once you’ve been appropriately chastened people are often surprisingly friendly.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        I know that Swiss German are known to be the most autistic and boring of all the Germanics.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >but my insurance costs more than CHF1000/month
      What the fuck? Can you explain a little more?
      The insurance deals I looked at in the canton of Zurich were like 300-400 CHF for a reasonable maximum out of pocket. I can't remember exactly but I think it was like you pay your own way to around 600 CHF, and then 10% of everything over that up to like 6000 CHF or something. I remember the absolute maximum out of pocket being something reasonable like 1500 CHF yearly.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        > What the fuck? Can you explain a little more?
        The insurance deals I looked at in the canton of Zurich were like 300-400 CHF for a reasonable maximum out of pocket.
        That 300-400 is your premium; you pay it monthly to get the coverage described below. That’s in line with most of the basic insurance premiums, which don’t cover everything. My basic insurance is $400something/mo., my supplemental coverage (abroad, accidents, and specialists) is the rest.
        >I can't remember exactly but I think it was like you pay your own way to around 600 CHF, and then 10% of everything over that up to like 6000 CHF or something.
        The amount you pay yourself is known as “franchise” in Switzerland; in the States it would be called a deductible. The higher your franchise the lower your premiums. I have something similar to the franchise you describe.
        >I remember the absolute maximum out of pocket being something reasonable like 1500 CHF yearly.
        That does not include the monthly premiums.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >That does not include the monthly premiums.
          Yes of course.

          So basic insurance doesn't cover accidents or specialists? I have two autoimmune diseases, so I'd definitely need to see a rheumatologist and maybe a dermatologist regularly, and a PhD student salary of 3300 CHF makes it really difficult to spend 1000 CHF per month on insurance. Could I just get the basic insurance and pay for the 4 or 6 yearly specialist visits myself?

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            > So basic insurance doesn't cover accidents or specialists? I have two autoimmune diseases, so I'd definitely need to see a rheumatologist and maybe a dermatologist regularly,
            The policies vary a lot—you will want to talk to a broker and someone from whatever university will be employing you. An increasing number of specialists are covered by basic insurance—they just added psychotherapy this year, for example—as well as basic accident insurance, but you get more out of supplemental insurance. Mine reimburses for 90% of any medical expenses accrued abroad, which is part of why it’s steep.

            My supplemental insurance also covers an endocrinologist and diabetes-related medical equipment; diabetics can’t normally get supplemental insurance at all, which is why I pay so much. My wife’s company has a deal with one of the big insurers.

            You can always pay your specialists out of pocket if you have to. Supplemental insurance is not mandatory. They *might* be covered by your basic policy at some level, but don’t count on it.

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              Oh, forgot to mention that specialists can get covered by basic insurance in many cases when the patient is referred by an insurance-company-approved GP who says he can’t treat something, and the specialist treatment is considered a medical necessity. Rheumatoid arthritis=probably deemed medical necessity, eczema=probably not.

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              Oh, forgot to mention that specialists can get covered by basic insurance in many cases when the patient is referred by an insurance-company-approved GP who says he can’t treat something, and the specialist treatment is considered a medical necessity. Rheumatoid arthritis=probably deemed medical necessity, eczema=probably not.

              Oh cool, that's reassuring. Thanks expat anon.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >quality of care is excellent, although specialists have waiting lists.
      I haven't heard of the first country with quality public healthcare and no waitlists yet.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Canadabux
      lmao cant relate you stupid fucking leaf literally nobody that matters is from your shitty cold commie cuntry

  5. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Norway
    The wages may be high, but the cost of living so much higher that you're worse off than in many other european countries.
    People say that Switzerland is very expensive, but over there it's easy to get 110-130k yearly, while in Norway it's very hard to go about 850-900k NOK yearly and everything is more expensive even compared to Zürich prices.

    t. lived in Oslo, currently interviewing for Swiss jobs

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Norway and Switzerland rank about the same in terms of purchasing power adjusted disposable income.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        You want to look at median incomes btw, not mean, which is skewed by the finance bigwigs making millions of dollars.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Those broad stats don't tell too much when it comes to an individual's experience when living in a country, trust me I had moved internationally plenty of times. My experience was for software work strictly (as I assume most people are on this website), but if you're in oil then Norway is going to be way better.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Norway and Switzerland rank about the same in terms of purchasing power adjusted disposable income.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income

      Currently the wages in norway are absolutely shit compared to cost of living. Everything has skyrocketed to beyond absurd levels and it's only getting worse.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        It's the same everywhere.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          norway is entirely self sufficient with energy, has a small population and vast oil reserves and yet has one of the highest electricity prices currently in all of europe
          realistically we should not be affected by the war in this way at all

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Seems like the price of electricity in Norway is half of what it is in France.
            https://www.statista.com/statistics/1267546/france-monthly-wholesale-electricity-price/
            https://www.statista.com/statistics/1271469/norway-monthly-wholesale-electricity-price/

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              >wholesale price
              >no accounting for all the shit added on top for """"""""" net maintenance""""""""""

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            That's because retards built connections to the EU grid and "normalized" prices.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              Norway should just join the EU. They already follow most EU regulations, except they don't have voting rights.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Not being forced to use the euro is pretty great though

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Not sure how bad everywhere else is but here in Norway it’s really fucked. The middle class is disappearing, i am carefully planning my groceries and trying to save as much as possible to later invest in something. If the living standards aren’t high enough there is no reason to suffer here with this shit society and shit weather.

  6. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >I'm a Canadian looking to get out of his soulless shithole of a country.
    >picks the two most soulless countries in Europe

    Anon. . .

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Do you have a suggestion on which country is less soulless than those two?

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Unfortunately, all the soulful European countries (Spain, Italy, Greece...) are poor shitholes.

  7. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Neither, both are soulless with small town mentality.

  8. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I live in Switzerland. Looking at salaries only is not sufficient. You have to factor in taxes and cost of living. If you start with a gross income of CHF 100k, you will have roughly CHF 80k after taxes. Then you will likely need 30-40k for rent and cost of living, so you will be able to save 30-40k per year, which is pretty nice. Rent will probably be around CHF 1500-2000 in one of the larger cities. Finding an apartment is a pain the the ass, especially if you are moving from abroad, as apartments in large cities like Zurich or Geneva are quite competitive, and your landlords will prefer you to have a reference letter from your last landlord kek. Grocery shopping will cost a minimum of CHF 100 a week. Eating out will cost you between CHF 50 (regular dinner with tips) to CHF 100-150 (if you get starters and some wine). I have to disagree regarding the quality of food with the gentleman above. Food quality in restaurants is actually quite high. Though in larger cities with many restaurants, if you just enter a random restaurant, it can happen that you will have an average quality lunch/dinner. There are many excellent restaurants, but you have to know where to find them. Public transport is excellent. You can get to almost any part of the country with public transport, and the trains are always on time. With Swiss salaries and a half-fare card (all your tickets are 50% off then, you should get it), prices even feel pretty cheap (though they probably still are not compared to other countries). Just to give you an example: From Zurich, I am in Berne or Lucern in one hour, in Lugano in two hours, and in Milan in four (by train).
    Only downside might be that I feel the Swiss aren't very good-looking people on average. They usually look kind of boring. Norwegian girls are likely better-looking, from what I've heard (if that's important to you).

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Is it possible to just migrate into Switzerland and become a simple farmer or sherpard with a simple medieval lifestyle without caring about how many shekels we earn for a living?

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Not an expert on the subject, but I think getting your residency in Switzerland is quite complicated, you usually get it through your employer. You can't just say I'll move there and then figure it out. Unless you have a EU passport I guess, then it's easier.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Is it possible to just migrate into Switzerland and become a simple farmer or sherpard with a simple medieval lifestyle without caring about how many shekels we earn for a living?
          If you are non-EU, you're employer has to prove that he could not get a Swiss or EU citizen with the same qualifications. So usually, you should have a few years of working experience before moving from a non-EU country (at age 30 you should have enough, though needless to say it should be a reputable employer). Alternatively, you should be able to qualify for residency if you start a business and are self-employed, but you would need to be able to prove that you make enough to get by in Switzerland.
          Subsistence agriculture should technically be possible, but the farm would likely cost an arm and a leg, as real estate in Switzerland is expensive unless it's at the end of the world. Even then, you would not be able to live completely cashless, since you will still have to pay yearly wealth tax on your wealth, and this includes the value of your farm/real estate. Also, if you do not have a mortgage on your house, you have to pay the imputed rental value as tax (usually 60-70% of the estimated potential yearly rental income of your house or rather farm). You could avoid this, but then you will need at mortgage you have to pay off (usually cheaper than the tax). So either way, you will have to pay a certain amount to your bank or the tax authorities each year if you own real estate.
          So in other words, I think it would not be so easy to live a simple farmer lifestyle as you have called it, at least if I take that literally and assume you will be doing subsistence agriculture.

          Aw shucks. There goes my dream. Thanks anons. What about Norway then? Maybe herding some reindeers won't be that bad...

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Just get a visa to stay in Germany for a few months while you apply for jobs in Switzerland. If you speak English and have some sort of programming skillset the banks will be killing each other over you.

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              I do have some programming skills, but not ones than banks would want though. But yea I get the idea. So I just have to get WFH kind of programming jobs while larping as a sherpard right? Sounds like a good idea.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Kek, I have openings for programmers in Zurich, we're always looking for some.
                Which kind of experience you have?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Not him but I live in Zürich and I made a LinkedIn a couple of years ago with my bare minimum details, studied IT in the early 2000s, some programming experience in my 20s. Since then I've constantly been bombarded by "headhunters" who I always assumed were scammers. Was I wrong to assume this? Are there actual good jobs for someone with not much experience?
                I just have a strong distaste for the IT recruitment industry since I learned they earn money passively by you working. I'd prefer to interview directly with the company myself.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Many of those head-hunter companies just hire FOR the actual company, they get some commission per contract, but that's it, they're hired by the final company to find good profiles. You would do the interview with your hirer.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                yeah I don't agree with them getting a commision.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Take into account that a company may be willing to offer a higher salary if they offered you the opportunity instead of being your the applicant for the position.
                Don't be a retard.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                I have a technical MSc degree (not CS) and 2 years of experience with mostly JS and Python. EU citizenship as well. Are you offering to help out here?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Mostly looking for embedded C and maybe a bit of scripting (Python or Pearl), but if you have good and relevant experience you should take a look at openings, it's definitely doable, although 2 years is on the verge of pure junior profile. Of course German is a must in some companies, so take that in mind.

                If you're not larping (you probably are), what makes a CV stand out to you?

                >If you're not larping (you probably are)
                Thanks for the compliment, I guess.

                For me is relevant professional experience; actual descriptions of the tasks performed instead of buzzwords (sadly you still need to add the buzzwords somewhere in the CV so it passes the first HR filter).
                Academic/PhD experience can even be counter productive, as they usually have Senior expectations just because they've been wiping some kids' asses for two years.

                Not jumping from company to company every other year; I get that many companies are shit and you just want to find THE one, but no one wants to teach you everything about your position just for you to fuck off the second you would actually start being productive, so you would need a very good reason behind these constant changes.

                Defined interests; if you have two years at frontend, one at scripting, after 6 months of arduino tinkering, it's hard to know what your real interests and professional projection are, I want to hire someone who knows what they like, not to be the next career experiment.

                Actual contributions; if you have some github/similar profile linked, be sure I'm going to check the shit out of it, you can see when someone's lazy or passionate about programming (as they usually claim), how thorough they are, etc.

                I can write more, but it's getting a bit too long.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                You ever hire fresh grads? And how much does the prestige of the university influence your decision?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >You ever hire fresh grads?
                Usually as internships, and then after it it can turn into a full contract.

                >And how much does the prestige of the university influence your decision?
                Meh, it's more of a sort of guarantee that the guy is not a total moron, because not everyone can get into them (I guess it's it's different in USA with their moronic sport grants), akin to making it out of a very hard degree, but I would never make a decision based on that, or ignore a CV because the University is not in the top 25.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                If you're not larping (you probably are), what makes a CV stand out to you?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                I've already seen that you're specifically looking for python/pearl scripters, but would you be able to give a rough idea on how in demand other programming knowledges/skillsets are? I have a thorough understanding of JS, Nodejs, CSS, HTML which is pretty much just specialised in web development, but I'm getting the idea that every jeet, digital nomad and fresh grad is saturating web dev/programming as well. How is it in Switzerland specifically?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >I've already seen that you're specifically looking for python/pearl scripters
                Mostly embedded C, actually. The scripting part is more of a "nice to have".
                I think the web dev saturation is global, but maybe even more here, as web is the easiest to outsource.
                I would still check linkedin if I were you, though.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                I've written a computer vision application with C++ for a color sorting machine, but I have no formal CS education. The app sends commands to an Arduino board which controls a bunch of pneumatic ejector valves, so I did a bit of babby-tier embedded programming. Would this sort of project elicit interest in industry or would I be laughed out the door?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >but I have no formal CS education
                Almost none of the programmers in my company do.

                >The app sends commands to an Arduino board
                >app
                >Arduino

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Laughed out the door it is then.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                I mean, if you have some useful speciality, you can look for companies that value that over the programming experience itself (as that's something that can be learnt by doing).

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                I guess I could try.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Thanks for the response anon. I have an OK junior position at the moment that pays the usual entry level salary (only learnt cs recently) but just as you and

                >I have a thorough understanding of JS, Nodejs, CSS, HTML
                So you have a pajeet skillset and you want to be hired in one of the highest paying countries in the world? Get real skills for the love of god.

                say, the salary is completely washed out by pajeet outsourcing. Unfortunately I fell for the 'just web dev remotely work 4hrs a week and get 100k+ salary its easy' meme during covid before it was too late. Any recommendations for 'real' languages/areas to unskill into? C has been mentioned but I'm not certain whether that's just in demand for your case specifically or in general

                >can't even spell perl properly
                >expects a job in CH
                lmao

                Guess you could say I don't know the language

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >I have a thorough understanding of JS, Nodejs, CSS, HTML
                So you have a pajeet skillset and you want to be hired in one of the highest paying countries in the world? Get real skills for the love of god.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >can't even spell perl properly
                >expects a job in CH
                lmao

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                I myself work in Zurich at a Swiss branch of an American company — though not in embedded. However, I have been advising a close friend, who has a background as an automotive engineer, to pick a new job here. From what I can tell, he fits your profile really well. He's a senior engineer w/ six (7?) years of experience, proficient in embedded C with varying levels of competence in other technologies. I know that he has a consistent professional track record of organically emerging as a leader and the most qualified and no-nonsense of his peers, and that people come to depend on him as the primary mover of all things forward. He also ticks every box in

                Mostly looking for embedded C and maybe a bit of scripting (Python or Pearl), but if you have good and relevant experience you should take a look at openings, it's definitely doable, although 2 years is on the verge of pure junior profile. Of course German is a must in some companies, so take that in mind.

                [...]
                >If you're not larping (you probably are)
                Thanks for the compliment, I guess.

                For me is relevant professional experience; actual descriptions of the tasks performed instead of buzzwords (sadly you still need to add the buzzwords somewhere in the CV so it passes the first HR filter).
                Academic/PhD experience can even be counter productive, as they usually have Senior expectations just because they've been wiping some kids' asses for two years.

                Not jumping from company to company every other year; I get that many companies are shit and you just want to find THE one, but no one wants to teach you everything about your position just for you to fuck off the second you would actually start being productive, so you would need a very good reason behind these constant changes.

                Defined interests; if you have two years at frontend, one at scripting, after 6 months of arduino tinkering, it's hard to know what your real interests and professional projection are, I want to hire someone who knows what they like, not to be the next career experiment.

                Actual contributions; if you have some github/similar profile linked, be sure I'm going to check the shit out of it, you can see when someone's lazy or passionate about programming (as they usually claim), how thorough they are, etc.

                I can write more, but it's getting a bit too long.

                . He's also employable in Switzerland, seeing as he's an EU citizen. All of the above is verifiable.

                How could I send him your or your company's way? If you're uncomfortable sharing details here, you can send me a message at temporaryemailforopportunities at gmail dot com, so that we get in touch.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Sent :^)
                (for real)

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                btw check the spam folder, because I used one of this throwaway mails

                Thanks, I got it and replied.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Got it.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Check your real mail (@so...) spam folder, I sent you one from my actual one.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                btw check the spam folder, because I used one of this throwaway mails

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            If you're serious about this dream then go to Iceland. Norway is about to have problems like the Netherlands with farming (look it up, the Norwegian farmers are always protesting), and they have really costly everything.

            Iceland on the other hand literally has degrees for farming. They're also very nice, open and welcoming. Reykjavik is definitely a bit Globohomo though, so that's something to think about. Akureyri is not as bad.

            Also there's only like 400k people, and there are more sheep than people there. If you farm there, get ready to know about sheep, have some sheep, and maybe some horses.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              I wish Norway could just import food instead of paying gibs to useless farmers.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Is it possible to just migrate into Switzerland and become a simple farmer or sherpard with a simple medieval lifestyle without caring about how many shekels we earn for a living?
        If you are non-EU, you're employer has to prove that he could not get a Swiss or EU citizen with the same qualifications. So usually, you should have a few years of working experience before moving from a non-EU country (at age 30 you should have enough, though needless to say it should be a reputable employer). Alternatively, you should be able to qualify for residency if you start a business and are self-employed, but you would need to be able to prove that you make enough to get by in Switzerland.
        Subsistence agriculture should technically be possible, but the farm would likely cost an arm and a leg, as real estate in Switzerland is expensive unless it's at the end of the world. Even then, you would not be able to live completely cashless, since you will still have to pay yearly wealth tax on your wealth, and this includes the value of your farm/real estate. Also, if you do not have a mortgage on your house, you have to pay the imputed rental value as tax (usually 60-70% of the estimated potential yearly rental income of your house or rather farm). You could avoid this, but then you will need at mortgage you have to pay off (usually cheaper than the tax). So either way, you will have to pay a certain amount to your bank or the tax authorities each year if you own real estate.
        So in other words, I think it would not be so easy to live a simple farmer lifestyle as you have called it, at least if I take that literally and assume you will be doing subsistence agriculture.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Switzerland is all about money and the Swiss are some of the most materialistic people I've ever had the misfortune of meeting.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >just migrate into Switzerland and become a simple farmer or sherpard

        Do you think that highly developed European countries are Lord of the Rings LARP sessions? Utterly retarded question

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Yes. I visited there as a tourist, not as a diplomat. My opinions and questions were based on what I see and feel with my senses. I know shit about politics and I will never give a fuck about them. In fact, many people in this [travel] board are like that. (You) are retardedly new for not knowing this. You probably never traveled either.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Do you actually need to tip in Switzerland? I never did it and I been there two times.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        > Do you actually need to tip in Switzerland? I never did it and I been there two times.
        Most people round up a bit/leave behind some coins, but it’s not universal and the tips aren’t as high as they would be in the US.

  9. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Norway is the most over rated boring autistic place on planet Earth. I would rather live in Winnipeg.

  10. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    If I am independently wealthy and my wife has EU citizenship can I move to Switzerland without having to work? Would probably just be there in the summers.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Your wife would need to get permanent residency there first.

  11. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I been in both as a tourist. I liked Switzerland more, they also have better climate,etc.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      doesnt swiss have big ass heat waves going on right now? its almost 100F there bro

  12. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I’ve lived in Norway. It is fabulously expensive and everyone has a “but we have coffee at home” mindset. People mock the British for bland food but they really mean Norway. They had to dial down paprika flavour potato chips. They like “Taco” which is an affront to Central America. Peculiar alcohol monopoly as well to stop the bored locals drinking themselves to death.

    However if you like the outdoors and like a proper hard winter then it’s worth it for a while despite the locals who will never accept you.

    My sister lived in Switzerland for a while. It was cheaper to drive to France for groceries. She seemed to like it.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >They like “Taco” which is an affront to Central America.
      Tell me more of this awful Norwegian Taco. Is it like the French “Tacos,” which is essentially a grilled dürüm kebap filled with Cheez-Whiz? That too is an abomination* that bears no resemblance to its namesake.

      There is no good Mexican food in Europe, and anyone who says otherwise either doesn’t know better or has bad taste.

      >*I mean, if you like low-end cheese sauce and meat I’m sure they’re fine; they seem like the sort of thing young people would like when they’re shitfaced drunk. But they’re not tacos or anything like them. Plus they look more like burritos.

      >It was cheaper to drive to France for groceries.
      Yeah, I live on the French and German borders—I go to Germany for household cleaning products, cat food, and breakfast cereal, and to France for fish and meat.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        You never had Mexican in a Mediterranean country?

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      This anon isn't entirely wrong in his assessment, although the acceptance part refers mostly to older established normies.

      >They like “Taco” which is an affront to Central America.
      Tell me more of this awful Norwegian Taco. Is it like the French “Tacos,” which is essentially a grilled dürüm kebap filled with Cheez-Whiz? That too is an abomination* that bears no resemblance to its namesake.

      There is no good Mexican food in Europe, and anyone who says otherwise either doesn’t know better or has bad taste.

      >*I mean, if you like low-end cheese sauce and meat I’m sure they’re fine; they seem like the sort of thing young people would like when they’re shitfaced drunk. But they’re not tacos or anything like them. Plus they look more like burritos.

      >It was cheaper to drive to France for groceries.
      Yeah, I live on the French and German borders—I go to Germany for household cleaning products, cat food, and breakfast cereal, and to France for fish and meat.

      Its not that awful but its certainly not Mexican either.

      It usually consists of (high quality) ground beef /chicken with added premade "taco Hispanices" browned in oil/butter, with other ingredients (cheese, lettuce, tomato, corn kernels, red onion, jalapeños, cucumber) and dressings (mashed avocado, Hispanicy tomato salsa, crème fraishe/sour cream) separated in small bowls so one can mix and choose whatever one likes in their a) fajitas or b) hard taco-shells.

      Its not bad at all, plus the ingredients are high quality unless you buy the absolute cheapest stuff

  13. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Live in germany at boarder
    Work in switzerland
    Good job opportunities in finance, pharma and biotec

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Live in germany at boarder
      Work in switzerland
      >Good job opportunities in finance, pharma and biotec
      Also in engineering and chemicals. The Grenzgänger lifestyle can indeed be great (we have many hundreds of them where I live), but OP doesn’t necessarily qualify—a job at a Swiss company can only get you a residence permit for Switzerland, not the EU.

      You also have the disadvantage of having to live in small-town border-region Germany, which isn’t my personal idea of a great time.

      But it’s cheap, and a Swiss salary does indeed go far there (assuming the company doesn’t pay you a German salary instead because of your address, which some companies do).

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        How is it to work in Switzerland and live in Italy or France?

        Are the french speakers easier to get along with than the deutschschweizers?

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >How is it to work in Switzerland and live in Italy or France?
          For citizens of Italy or France, it’s very easy—tens of thousands of them commute across the border every day. For non-EU foreigners, as noted above, it’s not possible unless you have the right to French or Italian residency from somewhere. A Swiss job won’t get you that.
          >Are the french speakers easier to get along with than the deutschschweizers?
          It’s a little hard to say. People are perhaps less turboautistic in the Romandie than they are in German-speaking cantons, but they’re still going to have more of a stick up their asses than the French, and the Swiss superiority complex crosses all linguistic barriers. I think Ticino (the Italian-speaking canton) feels like the least uptight part of Switzerland or the most uptight part of Italy.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >a residence permit for Switzerland, not the EU
        Isn't Switzerland part of some agreement that let's you stay in the EU if you have a Swiss visa?

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >sn't Switzerland part of some agreement that let's you stay in the EU if you have a Swiss visa?
          No. There is close-to-unrestricted freedom of movement in both directions for citizens, but a Swiss company in 99 cases out of 100 can only sponsor a Swiss residence permit. Swiss residence permits for foreigners are not valid in the EU.

          >t. American with Swiss residence permit

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Switzerland is, however, part of the Schengen Agreement, so Swiss residents (foreign or local) are de facto exempt from the 90 day limit on staying/traveling in the EU, mostly because we don’t really go through any passport controls when traveling in Schengen. But we couldn’t legally LIVE in the EU on Swiss papers.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Live in germany at boarder
      Work in switzerland
      >Good job opportunities in finance, pharma and biotec
      Also in engineering and chemicals. The Grenzgänger lifestyle can indeed be great (we have many hundreds of them where I live), but OP doesn’t necessarily qualify—a job at a Swiss company can only get you a residence permit for Switzerland, not the EU.

      You also have the disadvantage of having to live in small-town border-region Germany, which isn’t my personal idea of a great time.

      But it’s cheap, and a Swiss salary does indeed go far there (assuming the company doesn’t pay you a German salary instead because of your address, which some companies do).

      But aren't you then required to pay your taxes to Germany?

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yes, a German resident working in Switzerland is liable for German taxes.

  14. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Okay so, Switzerland is a capitalistic globohomo country, and Norway is a braindead soulless utopia. What about Svalbard? Is Svalbard a perfect place to ghost and start an isekai life?

  15. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    No, not Svalbard. A week there as a tourist was long enough, actually living in a desolate winter wasteland would make you go insane. You’d go for a walk in the wilderness just to let the bears have you.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Actually that sounds comfy. I'm an introvert you know. I would rather live with a polar bear than people who have zero concept on personal space.

  16. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    wifi money, live in poor country

  17. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    If you like nature then I think the fjords are more impressive than the sights in Switzerland

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      whomst?

  18. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I lived in Switzerland and I currently live in Norway. They are quite similar in many ways. If you want kids, school in Switzerland is tough with a lot of bullying. Norwegian school is too easy with less bullying. Both people are autistic, but Norwegians are more laid back at the workplace, your boss will most likely not chew you out, while in Switzerland you are expected to do your absolute best. Both are very materialistic, but when it comes to soul, Norway is a lot more in toich with Nature. Both have pretty cities, weather is better in Switzerland, food is a little cheaper in Norway. You are taxed heavily in Norway, but including insurance in Switzerland, you pay about the same monthly. If you want a big city, none of the cointries have one, but Oslo is the largest. Culture is more availablr in Switzerland. In Norway you have to work to find culture, which makes it look boring to most people who only visit. Drinking in Norway is toxic, in Seiyzerland it's not. The Swiss are however more mentally ill, so you will encounter more crazy people there. In conclusion: both are pretty, both are nice, both are expensive, but Norwegians don't have as much of a stick up their ass as the Swiss.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Norwegians don't have as much of a stick up their ass as the Swiss.
      Does anyone?

      Just get a visa to stay in Germany for a few months while you apply for jobs in Switzerland. If you speak English and have some sort of programming skillset the banks will be killing each other over you.

      I’ve had Mexican food in southern Spain; it was not good. There’s one Mexican place in my Swiss hometown that is actually fairly tasty, but wildly inauthentic.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Derp, sorry, meant to reply to

        You never had Mexican in a Mediterranean country?

        above.

  19. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Fuck off, we're full.

    Jokes aside, Switzerland has quite strict requirements for workers from out of CH or the EU.

  20. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I feel like Norway's weather completely negates any good things it might have going for it. Like, how can anyone be happy in a country with so little sun?

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      sighseeners don’t usually go outside

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Swede here,

      We absolutely are not, all of Scandinavia is trapped in a cycle of torment where the year is totally focused on summer, which is amazingly bright with 20 hours of daylight and beautiful nature, until it ends and you eventually stop seeing the sun for weeks (due to working hours).

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        I honestly don't get what all the Muslims see in Sweden. Why would anyone move there?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Free money and legalized rape

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Muslim here. How does this legalized rape thing work?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          See

          Free money and legalized rape

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          See

          See
          [...]

  21. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Is Canada that bad or you just bored? American considering moving and Canada seems like America without the problems (health care guns and Christian nationalism)

  22. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I have a friend who's looking to immigrate to Canada. What's wrong with it?

  23. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >Say someone worked on blood flow simulations for their PhD. The programming was a mix of C++ and Python, and some of it involved multithreaded application development
    Med tech is huge here, I'm getting messages from headhunters with such openings every other week.
    >the PhD guy is a mech engineer, not software
    There are lab equipment companies, I know of Radiometer Research, which do exactly these kind of things.
    >Would such a person be able to get a tech job in Switzerland?
    Yes, but. As I mentioned some posts ago, law requests that any application should be fulfilled by a local or EU candidate if there's a suitable one. It's easier for higher education positions like yours, so go for it, you're in a quite good position.

  24. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >I heard they're passing a new law in Switzerland that exempts master's and PhD graduates of Swiss universities from the foreign employment quota
    https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/switzerland-simplifies-process-of-employing-foreign-workers/47403702
    I'm now reading about that, cool, as we didn't have enough pajeets sending a thousand applications already.
    I swear I'm not hiring one.

  25. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Canada has a lot of soul if you know where to look.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Yes, you just have to look out of it, like OP already said he was doing.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >t. hasn't been to Montreal

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Montreal is a noisy, smelly shithole, just like other big cities.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Canada is a dumpster fire of a country lol…the economy is propped up by insane rates of immigration and the (sham of a )housing market

  26. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >I want to move to a place because my own place is a shithole and I want to be payed more money
    So you have no real interest in the places and are no better than any other thirdie or African wanting to turn up at the border and be showered in gold. What do you bring to the table? Are you even French Canadian? Do you even speak French, German or Norwegian? You sound like one of those out of touch hamplanets on a dating app that only accepts men who are 6'5 and make 7 figures.

  27. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Norway isn’t worth it. Salaries aren’t that much higher than in say Sweden or Germany, while cost of living is. Factual purchasing power isn’t much higher. The climate is also awful and the country not very interesting.

    Switzerland has high salaries, wonderful landscapes and better climate and food. Sounds like a perfect package, but the Swiss themselves are very boring and chauvinistic people. If you can look past that, Switzerland has a good quality of life.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >but the Swiss themselves are very boring and chauvinistic people
      To be fair, Nordic people may be even worse.

  28. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    You can guns in Switzerland with less of a hassle
    I choose my preferences for immigration based on:
    >Guns
    >Right to self defence
    >Salary / Taxes
    >Cost of living
    in that order
    My list is pretty much: US (AZ, TX, S/N Carolina etc..) > Switzerland > Czechia

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      You maybe want to make a better english language if your want to immigrate to US

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Why is guns such a big deal do you? Do you live in a dangerous hellhole where you need them?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        They're fun and my #1 hobby.

        You maybe want to make a better english language if your want to immigrate to US

        US is full of Mexicans that can't speak English. A little Eastern European goblin like me will fit right in.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Your "right to self defence" implies you're itching to shoot someone, not as a hobby. In most of Europe you can easily get guns for a hobby. But you're not allowed to shoot someone who looks at you the wrong way.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            No? The right to self defence is a pretty fundamental right that's missing in a lot of places. Why would I not want that? It's just a good indicator if the place is worth living in, in the first place. I have a career that can take me a lot of places and give me a great living standard pretty much everywhere. Why would I opt to live in a place where the legistlation treats it's citizens like children?

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              I would rather not live in a place where anyone can shoot you without reason and get away with it because he was arguing "self defence". You sound like a typical american desperately coping and trying to compensate.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                You would rather live in a place where the government can shoot you for any reason because you are scared of guns

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                so shoot back, retard?

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >YEAH SHOOTEM
                violence is a moron trait

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >rape, murder, rob, steal, kidnap, enslave, & colonize 90% of the planet
                >call everyone ELSE savages
                nobody is falling for your white tricks. historically speaking, violence is a white trait

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Is Liberia part of your shitpost?

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                violence is just an unevolved human trait. both pre-1900s whites and current morons are violent

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                seems like the benefactors of generational wealth lose their necessity and proclivity to violence

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                yeah that explains drug cartels and mafias very well, rich people would never be violent
                retard

  29. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Gonna go on vacation in norway with a friend around august.
    Any recs what we should definitely see and do?
    The only real event we planned to do is a hurtigruten boa trip between bergen and trondheim, but nothing really apart from that.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      How long are you there for, what do you like doing?

      Last big trip I did before the pandemic was 2wks in Arctic Norway doing some hikes in Senja and Lofoten in August. It was a blast

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        8-9 days
        My grandpa really talked up the beauty of the nature there so I'd like to see some of that but probably no hiking or anything
        Supposedly the train routes are often really pretty so probably will want to check those out

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Hurtigruten is the best way of seeing the fjords which are simply outstandingly beautiful. Train from Bergen to Oslo is also amazing. While in Bergen go see the church that the burzum guy burned.

          Hurtigruten is a ferry not a cruise ship - so no black tie dinners etc.

          Urban Norway is a bit dull tbh and you can quickly run out of things to do in the cities. Oslo has a ski jump ramp which is kinda cool.

          Are you going to hire a car? Can be a bit shitty getting around on public transport despite their oil trillions.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah we weren't really intending to spent too much time in the cities, just 1 or 2 day oslo and probably one each bergen and trondheim.
            No car cause I can't drive and my friend is really fucking shit at it and hasn't practiced in years, so public transport and ferries are kinda our only options.

  30. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Both of them are crazy expensive.

  31. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    i'm not certain, but some people think: "the life of a fisherman who lives in a cabin in the woods is better than the life of anyone else, because the fisherman only cares about fishing, and the others spend 24 hours worrying about money, jobs and other things."

  32. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >educated folk
    vaxxed moron cattle

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