What's my next move

>Be me, CompSci/EE student (USA)
>Owe 40k in student loans
>Starting 90k Job (In California: mentioning for tax reasons)
>Add bed to vehicle so that you can live out of it
>areyoustillreadingthis.json
>Want to move to EU ASAP
>Want to pay off loans ASAP

Do I stay in the US for a few years and save money/pay off my loans or find a job in the EU (which will likely pay less)?

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  1. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Are you presently living in your car, or just contemplating it? It’s an extremely miserable way to try to live. Whenever I read about that, or people living in those fricking “startup founder pods” in SF, it makes me want to tear my hair out.

    I know someone who actually lived in the back of a truck in San Francisco for a few months; he nearly went insane. And I don’t know how aggressive the cops are about this stuff down in Silicon Valley, if you’re presently homeless somewhere on the Peninsula, but you can expect harassment if you try to pull it off for long in SF.

    Anyway, I think you should start applying for EU jobs ASAP if that’s something you really want to try to do, but I know from living in both California and Europe that salaries are without question going to be lower over here, in some cases MUCH lower. It’s also a relatively limited job market for US citizens—it’s far cheaper and easier for companies to hire people with EU or EFTA passports than it is to import people who will need visa sponsorship. That isn’t to say you don’t have a chance, but it does absolutely mean that you’ll have fewer chances than someone who’s already legally here.

    I suppose my advice is to… try to get a job somewhere cheaper, if you can’t afford real housing where you are in California, or maybe a job that will let you work remotely or hybrid. Assuming you’re in the Bay Area, there are still places not too far inland that aren’t as ferociously overpriced as Palo Alto or San Francisco; you could probably afford an apartment somewhere in the Central Valley that would be livable if you didn’t have to commute in every day. I know a woman who commuted from Tracy to Oakland and back every day, and it honestly didn’t seem like spending up to three hours in her car five days a week made the cost savings worth it. But I could imagine enduring it if it were only once or twice a week.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Thank you for your thoughtful reply, it's nice to have someone here who's lived in both CA and EU.

      To answer your question yes I am currently living in my car, it's not so bad and I don't think I will go crazy, but it is a bit uncomfortable because I am 6' and the bed is not. It does seem a bit sad from the outside however when I factor in the commute, living with roommates, income after taxes, and spending 12 to $13,000 a year on just a bed... it seems to me like this is the lesser of two evils.

      I have applied to 300 plus jobs on LinkedIn within the EU and none of them replied, I wonder if it's all just automatically filtering me out. It may be my experience however I have worked in STEM Education for a few years and Aerospace for 4 years. My resume by USA standards is pretty okay.

      I have heard that there may be a loophole where you can pay to get a work permit in Portugal, and then thanks to freedom of movement you can work anywhere within the EU, have you heard of this is it true?

      I'll see about getting a job somewhere cheaper within the US I really don't enjoy driving in California traffic but I do worry about people finding out I live in my car I would never share it with them however I know this would be a huge red flag for the company.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >I have heard that there may be a loophole where you can pay to get a work permit in Portugal, and then thanks to freedom of movement you can work anywhere within the EU, have you heard of this is it true?
        It’s not quite true, unfortunately. For a long time, Portugal did have some of the easiest and most affordable “golden visa” options in the EU (getting tighter now), but they never straight-up sold work permits (you may be confusing them with residence permits, which aren’t necessarily synonymous). And non-Euro citizens with residence permits that allow work aren’t actually eligible for the same right of free movement available to citizens. A residence permit issued by an EU member state government, even a permanent residence, only entitles the foreigner to live/work in the specific country that issued it.

        I, for example, have permanent work and residence permits for Switzerland (not EU, but shared basic rules), but am ineligible to live in the French town next door. The converse would also be true if I had French papers and wanted to live or work in Germany or Switzerland.

        You should explore the various remote worker/digital nomad visa categories out there; something might be a better fit.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >A residence permit issued by an EU member state government, even a permanent residence, only entitles the foreigner to live/work in the specific country that issued it.
          Not OP, what issues would I run into if I tried to live in a different EU country than the one that gave me a residence permit if I didn't need a job? I would be staying in Airbnbs and not applying for a drivers license or any government programs.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Good question, would like to know too.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Good question, would like to know too.

            If you were staying in Airbnbs (so not trying to sign a real lease), and getting around mostly overland rather than by flying, I think you’d generally get away with it for a good long while. Technically, aliens with residency in a specific EU/Schengen Area country are subject to the same “90 days visa-free in any given 180” regulations when in any other country that normal, non-resident visitors are: I can only officially spend a maximum of 90 days in countries outside the one I live in within any six-month period. But in practice this is virtually unenforceable, because entries and exits to neighboring countries mostly aren’t really controlled, so there’s no official evidence in my passport to prove how long I’ve been away from home (as hard as it may be to believe, they’re mostly just looking for entry and exit stamps, or validity periods printed on visas). If an immigration authority suspected me of living somewhere else illegally, I’m sure they could use phone or bank records to bust me. But they would have to be after me in a pretty serious way.

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              Oh, but it just occurred to me that you might theoretically also run into trouble with either Airbnb hosts or your country of residence—Airbnb hosts do take a copy of your passport, and while I’ve never noticed them doing it in my case, they might also take note of your residence documents or visa; if you were actively overstaying a visa they might rat you out in some places. But that wouldn’t necessarily apply to someone with a valid residence document from a nearby country, just to someone who was overstaying in some capacity. I don’t *think* that Airbnb hosts submit guest information to official immigration authorities in most of Europe (but they do in most of Asia, and I think in some Eastern European countries), but I don’t know for sure. All of my intra-European travels have been short-term, a few weeks at the longest, so I’ve never personally worried about it.

              It’s also worth noting that if your country of residence somehow finds out that you have been away for longer than is permitted (varies by country; in Switzerland it’s six months), your residence permit can be invalidated. Even my so-called permanent residence will get cancelled if I am away from Switzerland for more than six months without requesting authorization.

              I don’t think any of these outcomes is very likely—I still think that you would generally get away with it. But there is some possibility of getting caught and of suffering consequences.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Do Hostels also snitch in this way?

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Do Hostels also snitch in this way?
                In Western Europe, I don’t think they do. I don’t think Airbnb normally does either. But I don’t know for certain. The only places I know for sure that accommodations definitely DO snitch are in Asia and the post-Soviet world.
                >After 7 years can't you return no issues?
                You can return with no credit and a history of bankruptcy. Those are issues.

  2. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    I've heard of people moving to the EU and then just defaulting on their student loans because wtf are they going to do about it? I feel like pulling this off long term works better with an EU citizenship or at least a permanent residency visa.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >I've heard of people moving to the EU and then just defaulting on their student loans because wtf are they going to do about it?
      They’re going to destroy your credit. May never be an issue for as long as you remain abroad, but if someone has any financial link to the USA at all, the fact of your default is going to be around for at least seven annoying years. I have a good but broke and arguably foolish friend who decided to default on his loans (while remaining in the US, in his case), and it took him ten years to be able to get credit cards and decent cell phone contracts, and longer than that to qualify for a mortgage when he and his wife refinanced their house. He’s lucky that he wasn’t single—he wouldn’t have been able to get a lease in his own name—and lucky that by the time he got married his wife already owned a house. He survived and turned out fine, but basically lost access to a lot of things he could have used to start his life as a young working adult trying to raise a family. And he’s almost certainly stayed poorer than he could have.

      >I feel like pulling this off long term works better with an EU citizenship or at least a permanent residency visa.
      Perhaps; if you never go back to the States it probably won’t mess up your day to day life as much. But it’s a cloud that doesn’t go away, or at least not for a long time, if you ever need or want to go back.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        After 7 years can't you return no issues?

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          THE USA GOVERNMENT LETS YOU DO THIS WITHOUT DEFAULTING, because it's too big of a burden and people would be in the streets with pitchforks... again

          you sign up for a plan like SAVE, and just internationally file taxes which should be 0 income since less than 110k. then you don't pay anything and dont default, and eventually forgiven.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      I would have considered doing that but I have a cosigner and I would not hurt their credit just because I want to get out of the US asap

  3. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    I was in your shoes with same degree and pay in Bay Area. This is what I did.
    Find a cheap room to rent.
    Find part time job.
    Live like a monk for a year working 7 days a week sleeping on a cot.
    Pay off debt in a year.
    Second year I bought a truck and converted the bed into a camper.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      What did you do after? What was living in the truck like?

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >graduate to work part-time and maybe after a year you can afford to be homeless
      mental illness.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Living like a monk and paying your debts is mental illness? So living outside your means and defaulting is the norm.

  4. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Your best bet is to literally build your resume, save, live like a NEET in spending, and pay off as much as you can. Cali taxes are bad but they aren't THAT BAD, the biggest take from you is probably rent unless you can live with your parents for a bit get a roommate or something to split stuff with.

    Also wanting to move to the EU and complaining about taxes is hilarious. Learn2understand cost of living, a 90k job in tech is piss easy outside of cali. Just work on making it and building your resume up.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      I am complaining about CA taxes because they get in the way of moving to the EU, wages are lower there and taxes are higher, I am aware.

      I will save and probably have to continue living out of my car, I am considering renting but like I said 12-15k a year for a shitty room I will need to commute from seems like a shit deal.

  5. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    lucky you even have a job, i couldn't find one during the summer as a CS grad and had a very small run-way (no parents, no job). literally help-desk wouldn't take me seriously and I had experience.

    anyway i no longer live there.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      I would likely be in the same boat if I didn't pick up a EE minor, all my CS friends are underpaid or jobless.

      We will see this more and more as the CS market is being flooded with new graduates and every other stem degree teaching programming as well as specialist skills. My boss just decided we will no longer seek CS students for employment because EE students often program nearly as well and given time, better than CS students.

      I feel like I wasted so much time getting my CS degree and wish I picked another stem major.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Tech stocks are long-duration assets and will benefit from cash being trash.

        unluckily we graduated into a war against inflation which has been going on since the end of 21.

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