In the US, my favorite winter town is South Lake Tahoe. We'd go up as a big group and rent a giant condo with a view of the lake. There are really good sledding hills, good restaurants, outdoor winter bars, a shit ton of ski resorts, a cool downtown area with shops, hiking trails, frozen waterfalls, outdoor skating rinks, casinos and they get really good weather. They get a lot of sun in Tahoe with a few insane blizzards that dump most of the snow in a few days.
A 4 bedroom condo in February is like 2100/week. If you go up with 8 people, it works out to like $40 a day per person, which is pretty fricking great for a giant condo in California.
Anything in the alps or similar places. It's just not as comfy if you have to pay for yourself, or more than 50% of your monthly income. And if there is not enough snow because of global warming.
Grindelwald is cozy in the winter, but it’s just a ski resort. Most of what is there is modern and a little overpriced (by Swiss standards) and not excessively interesting. There are at least a dozen Swiss mountain villages that I think offer a bit more history and charm.
Pic related is Falera, in Graubünden (Grisons, Grischun). Also in a resorty area, but most of the pistes are on the other side of a mountain around Laax or Flims, so the tiny center itself is more rustic.
Oh, and as for Swiss Alpine towns in canton Bern, close to Grindelwald, with more going on than just skiing, the lakeside town of Thun is adorable, and a full-service town. There are lots of towns around Lake Thun that are pleasant at any season and offer more than just slalom lessons and hamburgers from visiting Argentineans. Don’t have any winter pics from there on my phone, but here’s a summer pic from Oberhofen, right next to Thun, from a while ago. Imagine snow and there you have it.
Shhh, don't go around telling that they should leave the Interlaken Tourist Containment Zone when visiting the Bernese Oberland, you'll ruin it for us Swiss and residents!
Oh, um, did I say Oberhofen am Thun’see? I meant Interlaken. Go to Interlaken. Better yet, break from the tourist sheep masses and go to St. Moritz.
Interlaken is sort of hilarious IMO, because so many Swiss people seem to hate it so much. Like most locals, I’ve mostly just changed trains there, but it seemed totally OK to me the few times I’ve stopped for lunch or something, en route to somewhere else. And the geographical setting is undeniably very pretty even if the town is mostly just a tourist trap.
Japan is top-tier for winter because the winters are relatively short and mild, tend more towards gentle snow at -5 than extreme cold/freezing rain/etc, the country is highly developed with lots of heated indoor spaces and public transit so you dont have to contend with the cold 24/7, and the japs are very big into recreational activities related to the cold (skiing, outdoor festivals, etc)
t.leaf, this has been the least stressful month of winter weather in my life
>Who is Jack and how is he allowed to sell Wolfskin all over Europe
They're known for aggressively litigating furries who use a paw print logo for things.
>muh Grindelwald
Yeah, the mountains are really nice, but the town itself is so small there is nothing to do. Something like Sierre would be better if you want to be in Switzerland. Even Chamonix sounds better.
>Something like Sierre would be better if you want to be in Switzerland.
Sierre is OK. Sion is IMO livelier as a not-just-skiing “city,” but it’s farther from the slopes. Zermatt isn’t bad just as a town, either, pokey though it is, nor is Davos, if you can afford them. But I’ve done ski vacations in Grindelwald a few times, and find it undeniably cozy as a place to sleep and drink mulled wine and eat cheese after spending ten hours a day skiing, but it’s not a place you go to hang out in town. It’s been almost nothing but “chalets,” which are usually just a euphemism for condos, for many decades at this point. Some people I know who ski there like to stay down in the (aforementioned, IMO unfairly maligned tourist trap) of Interlaken and just take the train up to Grindelwald every day to ski, which takes ~45 minutes.
>Even Chamonix sounds better.
It’s a trifle cheaper than Zermatt or Davos (still expensive because Alpine ski resort), with IMO slightly better food than most Swiss ski villages. But it’s OK too in my one experience (with French friends who owned a place there).
Zermatt is very expensive. It was the most expensive place I've been in Europe. I was there last winter for the first time with my girlfriend. Airbnbs in Zermatt are about double what we paid in Chamonix this year. The cheapest apartment I see in February this year would run you $1700/week for 2 people in Zermatt.
Our restaurant bills were insane. We never got a bill that was less than $80 for any meal. Even the pub in Zermatt were charging $11 for a beer and $25 for chicken wings. And they had a line out the door because it was the cheapest place in town. I needed a regular old knit ski hate and had to shell out $25. I get those at the dollar store in the US. With all that said, Zermatt is fricking amazing. The ride up the gondola is one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen in my life. And the town is pristine. It did not disappoint. This was the view from our Airbnb
>Zermatt is very expensive. It was the most expensive place I've been in Europe
This surprises me not at all. Switzerland is approximately the most expensive country in Europe. Scandinavian countries are steeper for some things (retail alcohol is probably half the price here that it is in Sweden, because the Swiss are libertarian drunks), rent is more absurd in London, etc., but there’s almost nowhere with higher general cost of living or prices than here. And resort towns are more expensive than average, and Zermatt is a posher-than-average resort town.
People are always agog at the fact that Swiss salaries are so high compared to neighboring countries (average wealth increase for Germans working here is at least 30%; for Italians it’s at least 70%; a full-time Swiss supermarket cashier makes the equivalent of more than €50K per year, etc.). But it’s because the cost of living is 30% to 70% higher than it is elsewhere.
>Airbnbs in Zermatt are about double what we paid in Chamonix this year.
That’s maybe a little worse than I would have guessed. But prices for most things automatically increase by at least 1.5X when entering CH from elsewhere in Europe, without any reasonable expectation of any increase in quality at all. >Our restaurant bills were insane. We never got a bill that was less than $80 for any meal. Even the pub in Zermatt were charging $11 for a beer and $25 for chicken wings.
And if you are quoting as if there were a 1:1 parity between USD and CHF, they were more expensive than that… haven’t looked in a few days, but the Swiss franc was about 13% higher than the greenback last week. And I just looked, so as of this morning, an 80CHF restaurant bill was actually US$92. That’s what lunch in a restaurant costs. But restaurant food, even in non-posh areas, is perhaps Switzerland’s greatest ripoff. Guaranteed to cost more than almost anywhere else you’ve ever eaten, but usually not as good.
" Guaranteed to cost more than almost anywhere else you’ve ever eaten, but usually not as good."
Yea, the food wasn't great. I'll never eat Swiss fondue again in my life.
The exception to the bad food in Switzerland was the Pizza. We had a couple really good Neapolitan style pizzas. They weren't cheap, but they were good. I think I paid 30chf for a personal pizza at GoldenLok in Zermatt. But even in southern California, I've never seen $20 for a side of Tzatziki.
Have you ever done Bern or Zurich? I'm considering a trip starting in Frankfurt in the fall and traveling down the Rhine and hitting Heidelberg, Strasbourg, Colmar, Bern and flying home from Zurich.
Not him but Zurich and Bern are pretty good. Bern(just the city) can be done in 1 day max unless you want to do some nature stuff or travel around the area Zurich(city only) is about 2 days but you should add a couple of days to explore the areas around it.
Bern I would highly suggest to add a day or two and spend a day in Laupen(this is a 1-2h max stop but totally worth it) and Murten.
Zurich my suggestions are Rapperswil, Bremgarten and Baden.
Price wise it's Switzerland so I say expect to spend 200CHF/day.
Not him but Zurich and Bern are pretty good. Bern(just the city) can be done in 1 day max unless you want to do some nature stuff or travel around the area Zurich(city only) is about 2 days but you should add a couple of days to explore the areas around it.
Bern I would highly suggest to add a day or two and spend a day in Laupen(this is a 1-2h max stop but totally worth it) and Murten.
Zurich my suggestions are Rapperswil, Bremgarten and Baden.
Price wise it's Switzerland so I say expect to spend 200CHF/day.
t. swiss
I agree with my compatriot above. Personally, I think Bern has a more attractive/photogenic old city center than Zürich, but Zürich is larger and has predictably more going on as a city. Both are pleasant enough. And I second the recommendation for a side trip to Baden; it’s really attractive. People love to hate “urban” Switzerland in favor of the countryside, not completely without reason, but there are dozens of very pleasant, if not always exciting, miniature city centers. Baden is a cute example of one of these.
Not him but Zurich and Bern are pretty good. Bern(just the city) can be done in 1 day max unless you want to do some nature stuff or travel around the area Zurich(city only) is about 2 days but you should add a couple of days to explore the areas around it.
Bern I would highly suggest to add a day or two and spend a day in Laupen(this is a 1-2h max stop but totally worth it) and Murten.
Zurich my suggestions are Rapperswil, Bremgarten and Baden.
Price wise it's Switzerland so I say expect to spend 200CHF/day.
t. swiss
Last but not least if you're a somewhat SighSee guy or enjoy a hike consider the short 3h mild walk from Baden to Regensberg via the Lägern. You will be rewarded with incredible views all around and the S15 from Dielsdorf will take you back to Zurich in something like 20min.
I went to grindlewald in the summer and felt like it would have been even better during winter
>You will never be born in Grindelwald
Yes but I'd be kinda sad if my hometown turned into a tourist haven. All shops turn towards tourists and everyone moves and rents as airbnbs
It's Banff but without poo in loos!
Rovaniemi
Yeah for a week maybe. After that the kaamos gets u, and u end up committing suicide or start abusing subutex
Switzerland
In the US, my favorite winter town is South Lake Tahoe. We'd go up as a big group and rent a giant condo with a view of the lake. There are really good sledding hills, good restaurants, outdoor winter bars, a shit ton of ski resorts, a cool downtown area with shops, hiking trails, frozen waterfalls, outdoor skating rinks, casinos and they get really good weather. They get a lot of sun in Tahoe with a few insane blizzards that dump most of the snow in a few days.
A 4 bedroom condo in February is like 2100/week. If you go up with 8 people, it works out to like $40 a day per person, which is pretty fricking great for a giant condo in California.
Anything in the alps or similar places. It's just not as comfy if you have to pay for yourself, or more than 50% of your monthly income. And if there is not enough snow because of global warming.
Grindelwald is cozy in the winter, but it’s just a ski resort. Most of what is there is modern and a little overpriced (by Swiss standards) and not excessively interesting. There are at least a dozen Swiss mountain villages that I think offer a bit more history and charm.
Pic related is Falera, in Graubünden (Grisons, Grischun). Also in a resorty area, but most of the pistes are on the other side of a mountain around Laax or Flims, so the tiny center itself is more rustic.
Oh, and as for Swiss Alpine towns in canton Bern, close to Grindelwald, with more going on than just skiing, the lakeside town of Thun is adorable, and a full-service town. There are lots of towns around Lake Thun that are pleasant at any season and offer more than just slalom lessons and hamburgers from visiting Argentineans. Don’t have any winter pics from there on my phone, but here’s a summer pic from Oberhofen, right next to Thun, from a while ago. Imagine snow and there you have it.
>t. Live in Switzerland
Shhh, don't go around telling that they should leave the Interlaken Tourist Containment Zone when visiting the Bernese Oberland, you'll ruin it for us Swiss and residents!
Oh, um, did I say Oberhofen am Thun’see? I meant Interlaken. Go to Interlaken. Better yet, break from the tourist sheep masses and go to St. Moritz.
Interlaken is sort of hilarious IMO, because so many Swiss people seem to hate it so much. Like most locals, I’ve mostly just changed trains there, but it seemed totally OK to me the few times I’ve stopped for lunch or something, en route to somewhere else. And the geographical setting is undeniably very pretty even if the town is mostly just a tourist trap.
Hokkaido
Car centric shit
Nothing wrong with car you damn idiot
Human > car
use a car to get from A to B, no one is telling you to socialize with it. What a moron.
Frick off, WEF shill.
Same
Japan is top-tier for winter because the winters are relatively short and mild, tend more towards gentle snow at -5 than extreme cold/freezing rain/etc, the country is highly developed with lots of heated indoor spaces and public transit so you dont have to contend with the cold 24/7, and the japs are very big into recreational activities related to the cold (skiing, outdoor festivals, etc)
t.leaf, this has been the least stressful month of winter weather in my life
Who is Jack and how is he allowed to sell Wolfskin all over Europe
how many wolves can he possibly have skinned
>Who is Jack and how is he allowed to sell Wolfskin all over Europe
They're known for aggressively litigating furries who use a paw print logo for things.
Telluride
>muh Grindelwald
Yeah, the mountains are really nice, but the town itself is so small there is nothing to do. Something like Sierre would be better if you want to be in Switzerland. Even Chamonix sounds better.
>Something like Sierre would be better if you want to be in Switzerland.
Sierre is OK. Sion is IMO livelier as a not-just-skiing “city,” but it’s farther from the slopes. Zermatt isn’t bad just as a town, either, pokey though it is, nor is Davos, if you can afford them. But I’ve done ski vacations in Grindelwald a few times, and find it undeniably cozy as a place to sleep and drink mulled wine and eat cheese after spending ten hours a day skiing, but it’s not a place you go to hang out in town. It’s been almost nothing but “chalets,” which are usually just a euphemism for condos, for many decades at this point. Some people I know who ski there like to stay down in the (aforementioned, IMO unfairly maligned tourist trap) of Interlaken and just take the train up to Grindelwald every day to ski, which takes ~45 minutes.
>Even Chamonix sounds better.
It’s a trifle cheaper than Zermatt or Davos (still expensive because Alpine ski resort), with IMO slightly better food than most Swiss ski villages. But it’s OK too in my one experience (with French friends who owned a place there).
Zermatt is very expensive. It was the most expensive place I've been in Europe. I was there last winter for the first time with my girlfriend. Airbnbs in Zermatt are about double what we paid in Chamonix this year. The cheapest apartment I see in February this year would run you $1700/week for 2 people in Zermatt.
Our restaurant bills were insane. We never got a bill that was less than $80 for any meal. Even the pub in Zermatt were charging $11 for a beer and $25 for chicken wings. And they had a line out the door because it was the cheapest place in town. I needed a regular old knit ski hate and had to shell out $25. I get those at the dollar store in the US. With all that said, Zermatt is fricking amazing. The ride up the gondola is one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen in my life. And the town is pristine. It did not disappoint. This was the view from our Airbnb
>Zermatt is very expensive. It was the most expensive place I've been in Europe
This surprises me not at all. Switzerland is approximately the most expensive country in Europe. Scandinavian countries are steeper for some things (retail alcohol is probably half the price here that it is in Sweden, because the Swiss are libertarian drunks), rent is more absurd in London, etc., but there’s almost nowhere with higher general cost of living or prices than here. And resort towns are more expensive than average, and Zermatt is a posher-than-average resort town.
People are always agog at the fact that Swiss salaries are so high compared to neighboring countries (average wealth increase for Germans working here is at least 30%; for Italians it’s at least 70%; a full-time Swiss supermarket cashier makes the equivalent of more than €50K per year, etc.). But it’s because the cost of living is 30% to 70% higher than it is elsewhere.
>Airbnbs in Zermatt are about double what we paid in Chamonix this year.
That’s maybe a little worse than I would have guessed. But prices for most things automatically increase by at least 1.5X when entering CH from elsewhere in Europe, without any reasonable expectation of any increase in quality at all.
>Our restaurant bills were insane. We never got a bill that was less than $80 for any meal. Even the pub in Zermatt were charging $11 for a beer and $25 for chicken wings.
And if you are quoting as if there were a 1:1 parity between USD and CHF, they were more expensive than that… haven’t looked in a few days, but the Swiss franc was about 13% higher than the greenback last week. And I just looked, so as of this morning, an 80CHF restaurant bill was actually US$92. That’s what lunch in a restaurant costs. But restaurant food, even in non-posh areas, is perhaps Switzerland’s greatest ripoff. Guaranteed to cost more than almost anywhere else you’ve ever eaten, but usually not as good.
" Guaranteed to cost more than almost anywhere else you’ve ever eaten, but usually not as good."
Yea, the food wasn't great. I'll never eat Swiss fondue again in my life.
The exception to the bad food in Switzerland was the Pizza. We had a couple really good Neapolitan style pizzas. They weren't cheap, but they were good. I think I paid 30chf for a personal pizza at GoldenLok in Zermatt. But even in southern California, I've never seen $20 for a side of Tzatziki.
Have you ever done Bern or Zurich? I'm considering a trip starting in Frankfurt in the fall and traveling down the Rhine and hitting Heidelberg, Strasbourg, Colmar, Bern and flying home from Zurich.
Not him but Zurich and Bern are pretty good. Bern(just the city) can be done in 1 day max unless you want to do some nature stuff or travel around the area Zurich(city only) is about 2 days but you should add a couple of days to explore the areas around it.
Bern I would highly suggest to add a day or two and spend a day in Laupen(this is a 1-2h max stop but totally worth it) and Murten.
Zurich my suggestions are Rapperswil, Bremgarten and Baden.
Price wise it's Switzerland so I say expect to spend 200CHF/day.
t. swiss
I agree with my compatriot above. Personally, I think Bern has a more attractive/photogenic old city center than Zürich, but Zürich is larger and has predictably more going on as a city. Both are pleasant enough. And I second the recommendation for a side trip to Baden; it’s really attractive. People love to hate “urban” Switzerland in favor of the countryside, not completely without reason, but there are dozens of very pleasant, if not always exciting, miniature city centers. Baden is a cute example of one of these.
Last but not least if you're a somewhat SighSee guy or enjoy a hike consider the short 3h mild walk from Baden to Regensberg via the Lägern. You will be rewarded with incredible views all around and the S15 from Dielsdorf will take you back to Zurich in something like 20min.
It's pretty stereotypical but NYC in Winter
Berchtesgaden.
8 inches deep in your mum's pussy